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Amilyn Holdo
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
\As I said before, it was not just the use of a Force Point, but it was 1. the sacrifice/death of a character, 2. loss of major equipment, 3. dramatically appropriate time, and 4. dramatically closed a scene and moved the story forward.

Okay, but none of that explains how the action actually occured insofar as game mechanics. The math of 6D+2 just doesn't add up; the character would've had to roll straight 6's to get even close. I agree with you insofar as 1-4, but there is no rule in the book that covers how those factors boost dice roll results.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Amilyn Holdo Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
Type: Quirky Apprentice Legislature


"Legislature" should be changed to "Legislator". A "Legislature" is the governing body that creates laws, like Congress. A "Legislator" is a person who works in the Legislature, like a congresswoman or a senator.
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Telsij
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Amilyn Holdo Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
shootingwomprats wrote:
Type: Quirky Apprentice Legislature


"Legislature" should be changed to "Legislator". A "Legislature" is the governing body that creates laws, like Congress. A "Legislator" is a person who works in the Legislature, like a congresswoman or a senator.

Maybe she is the Legislature? Perhaps she's just following Sheev "I am the Senate" Palpatine's example? Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What exactly is "athletics: sky fairing?"
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Forceally
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
What exactly is "athletics: sky fairing?"


I agree. Also, tactics: capital ships and willpower aren't advanced skills, so they don't need (A) or (s) in front of them.

This is also a reason why in stating these characters, it would be pertinent to read any backstory to them. If we relied on TLJ for her, you'd have a set of stats for her. By reading Leia: Princess of Alderaan, you get to learn about any additional skills she might not have demonstrated in TLJ and therefore wouldn't have had knowledge of such skills. Furthermore, if she demonstrated a skill in TLJ, and you learn that she demonstrated the same skill in the novel, then chances are she actually has more dice in said skill than you'd first thought.
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Okay, but none of that explains how the action actually occured insofar as game mechanics. The math of 6D+2 just doesn't add up; the character would've had to roll straight 6's to get even close. I agree with you insofar as 1-4, but there is no rule in the book that covers how those factors boost dice roll results.


She has been updated with capital ship piloting 4D+1. This is 8D+2, with an average of 30. You also seem to be hung up on the mechanics. If a character is sacrificing themselves to give their freinds a chance to live, not save them mind you, but just the chance and it ramps up the drama of the story, hell I would be willing to handwave any mechanics in favor of something cool and heroic.

garhkal wrote:
What exactly is "athletics: sky fairing?"


It is not clear exactly but it is a combination of philosphic meditation and exercise using silks/ropes.

Forceally wrote:
Also, tactics: capital ships and willpower aren't advanced skills, so they don't need (A) or (s) in front of them.


The (s) means the skill it is a specialization. The notation for willpower was an oversite and has been removed.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:

garhkal wrote:
What exactly is "athletics: sky fairing?"


It is not clear exactly but it is a combination of philosphic meditation and exercise using silks/ropes.


Sorta like Rope/curtain yoga..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
You also seem to be hung up on the mechanics. If a character is sacrificing themselves to give their friends a chance to live, not save them mind you, but just the chance and it ramps up the drama of the story, hell I would be willing to handwave any mechanics in favor of something cool and heroic.

I'm hung up on mechanics because the mechanics are the underpinning of storytelling within the game itself. If the plan is to just handwave what a character can and can't do, then why bother writing up stats in the first place? I have no problem with a GM fudging the rolls to make something spectacular happen, but the stats and the rules should at least theoretically allow the character to perform the action in question. How many discussions have there been on various on-line forums wondering why character X can perform a given action when their skill level says otherwise? Better to nip said discussions in the bud by giving the character stats that plausibly explain what we see them do, rather than overdependence on the GM handwave.
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Forceally
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
shootingwomprats wrote:

garhkal wrote:
What exactly is "athletics: sky fairing?"


It is not clear exactly but it is a combination of philosphic meditation and exercise using silks/ropes.


Sorta like Rope/curtain yoga..


Laughing
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

I'm hung up on mechanics because the mechanics are the underpinning of storytelling within the game itself. If the plan is to just handwave what a character can and can't do, then why bother writing up stats in the first place? I have no problem with a GM fudging the rolls to make something spectacular happen, but the stats and the rules should at least theoretically allow the character to perform the action in question. How many discussions have there been on various on-line forums wondering why character X can perform a given action when their skill level says otherwise? Better to nip said discussions in the bud by giving the character stats that plausibly explain what we see them do, rather than overdependence on the GM handwave.


I am the same. I'd rather the NPC (or pc) in question, have actual mechanics in place, stats supporting them performing certain actions we see, rather than the GM using "handwavium".
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Telsij
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMMcNeill wrote:
Better to nip said discussions in the bud by giving the character stats that plausibly explain what we see them do, rather than overdependence on the GM handwave.

garkhal wrote:
I am the same. I'd rather the NPC (or pc) in question, have actual mechanics in place, stats supporting them performing certain actions we see, rather than the GM using "handwavium".


100% agreed, seconded and thirded even! As I'm sure is obvious, I'd much rather as much as possible be represented in the stats themselves. The re-re-revised statblock is closer though.


garhkal wrote:
shootingwomprats wrote:

garhkal wrote:
What exactly is "athletics: sky fairing?"

It is not clear exactly but it is a combination of philosphic meditation and exercise using silks/ropes.

Sorta like Rope/curtain yoga..


Ah, it sounds like a hippier/new-agey take on Aerial Silks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_silk

If we find out any more about the practice in other sources, and it turns out to be a lot more that like exercise/performance, in-game I'd even grant it minor bonuses to climbing'jumping. (My wife used to take Aerial Silks classes, and she became a very strong climber despite or perhaps in part because of being tiny -- and the skills extended even to when we went wall-climbing, though neither of us had done that previously). As some of the Acrobatics rules I've seen have granted, maybe allow for a supplementary skyfaring roll in specific climbing/jumping circumstances, once more info on the practice is known?

Edit: Is "Athletics" intended to be "Acrobatics?" If so, Skyfaring as an acro specialization makes a lot more sense.
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just finished "Leia, Princess of Alderaan' and hace decided others were correct. She definitely needs to have higher astrogation, space transports, planetary systems, and possibly willpower.

I did have an idea about the use of capital ship piloting that she used in the movie. In the scene she does pilot the ship on her own, but its a basic maneuver, albeit, we do not know if there is a negative modifier because of number of people to operate the ship. Within the rules this could be assumed an automatic success since she is not performing a difficult maneuver, she is just turning the ship around to face a HUGE enemy ship.

I believe she calculates a hyperspace jump right into the HUGE ship. Which would mean she would have a high astrogation skill, not necessarily a high pilot capital ship.

Edit: going back and looking at the last edit I put up on Aug-08, I think these changes are already implemented. Thoughts.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was my thought, as well. We had a minor dust-up on another thread a while back as to whether the jump to hyperspace was an actual sudden burst of acceleration or just pseudomotion, an optical illusion caused by the dimensional translation up to hyperspace. Since the RAW makes no provision for realspace acceleration up to hyperspace, the latter is a better fit to the RAW. As such, it works better with the RAW to have the Holdo Ram occur while the Raddus is in hyperspace. It also might help explain the strange energy blowback from the collision, as it doesn't really look like a "normal" explosion.
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Pel
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:

I believe she calculates a hyperspace jump right into the HUGE ship. Which would mean she would have a high astrogation skill, not necessarily a high pilot capital ship.

I'm not so sure about that. As you said, it was a basic piloting maneuver, then once her ship was pointed at the super gigantic death machine, if she simply engaged the hyperdrive, that's probably pretty easy.

Now, if you decide Holdo had to calculate a micro-jump, that's a different barrel of monkeys. Also, don't discount the possibility of an astromech droid in the background doing the heavy mathematical lifting.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pel wrote:
As you said, it was a basic piloting maneuver, then once her ship was pointed at the super gigantic death machine, if she simply engaged the hyperdrive, that's probably pretty easy.

Now, if you decide Holdo had to calculate a micro-jump, that's a different barrel of monkeys. Also, don't discount the possibility of an astromech droid in the background doing the heavy mathematical lifting.

While I'm a proponent of the pseudomotion theory of hyperspace jumps (as opposed to acceleration theory), there's a clear argument to be made for ships having to reorient themselves in realspace in preparation for the jump, so that the x-axis of the ship is oriented on the first leg of the hyperspace course. Holdo bringing the ship around and aiming it at the Supremacy would follow with that.

It's entirely possible that there were multiple safety interlocks that had to be overridden because the drive's automated system could detect an obstruction in the path of the jump, in addition to the precise calculation needed to achieve a successful impact (note that even at that close range, the Raddus still impacted off-center of the Supremacy's main mass).
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