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WH40K Space Marines
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
I swear, that's what popped into my head when I read "Startroopers."

You must unlearn what you have learned.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Maybe hyphenate to break it up? Star-Troopers?

Stormtroopers, Sandtroopers, Seatroopers, Spacetroopers, Snowtroopers...

Why start now?

Who looks at Seatroopers and sees "Seat Roopers"? I mean, you all will now, but...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stormtroopers of the 40,000th Legion?

Although... now that I've thought about it a little, I like the idea of StormMarines.
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Sutehp
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Joined: 01 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
You must unlearn what you have learned.


CRMcNeill wrote:
Who looks at Seatroopers and sees "Seat Roopers"? I mean, you all will now, but...


Is it me or does this strike anyone else as contradictory? Laughing Wink
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11523
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Is it me or does this strike anyone else as contradictory? Laughing Wink

George Carlin wrote:
"There's a lot of things you never see, and you don't know you don't see them, because you don't see them. You've got to see something first to know you never saw it, and then you see it and say, 'hey, I never saw that." Too late; you just saw it."

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
Is it me or does this strike anyone else as contradictory? Laughing Wink

George Carlin wrote:
"There's a lot of things you never see, and you don't know you don't see them, because you don't see them. You've got to see something first to know you never saw it, and then you see it and say, 'hey, I never saw that." Too late; you just saw it."


Quoting the late great George Carlin. I salute you, sir. Well played. Very well played, indeed. Cool
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Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
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Pel
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's the reason that I get IN the plane. Laughing
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pel wrote:
He's the reason that I get IN the plane. Laughing

And the reason you don't pre-board?
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I used to use plastic space marines as Dark Trooper miniatures Smile
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In reference to your original post, and this recent one about naming them startroopers, have you settled on incorporating the space marines into the universe, or are you still hashing out the details?

The biggest question I would have is, how many of them are there compared to regular storm troopers?
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
In reference to your original post, and this recent one about naming them startroopers, have you settled on incorporating the space marines into the universe, or are you still hashing out the details?

The biggest question I would have is, how many of them are there compared to regular storm troopers?


The math varies considerably between 40k and SW stats so think carefully. Consider the following. SWMB and W40k essentially use very similar "to hit" and "to wound" mechanics, with different names for the stats. I'll use 40k stat names to make some comparisons.

In Warhammer, typical models have a Toughness of 3 or 4, and in SW, typical models had an equivalent stat of 2 or 3. But the damage ouptput of weapons was very different. A typical pistol or rifle in 40k has a Strength of 3 or 4. A typical pistol or rifle in SW has a Strength of 4 or 5. There's a little bit more randomness in SW because you make an opposed roll to wound, but still. Blasters hit a LOT harder than bolters, if you try to adapt the two game universes.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm quite familiar with 40k, actually. I tend to think that something like a 40k space marine is too advanced to fit neatly into the SWU (assuming we are porting the concept in 100% stock form).

The are not only genetically modified from an already living adolescent human, they also have prosthetic internal vital organs in addition to their natural ones, as well as their anatomy being interfaced with their armor.

In 40K lore, a space marine is extremely difficult to kill out right: you would have to shoot out both of his hearts, for example, so a single shot to the chest with a regular blaster can at best incapacitate, but mortally wounding or killing outright would be nearly impossible with a single shot (a head shot that successfully causes damage should work as expected, however).

A space marine would likely be a match for a wookiee in a brawl, but only a wookiee who is a dedicated warrior has a reasonable chance at surviving a fight with a 40k space marine (though the wookiee rage would probably tip the scales). Chewbacca, IMO, would get creamed by a space marine in a brawl. YMMV, but Chewie, as I interpret his character, does not live a warrior lifestyle, so going up against someone just as big and strong, but whose entire purpose in life is to fight wars would have a decisive mental and emotional edge, as well as staying constantly sharp in terms of combat readiness (and willingness).

This is why I asked about the basic concept and how rare or common they are intended to be. The more common, the more they would jeed to be watered down in order to not shift the balance of the game too much.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's mostly a thought exercise at this point, but your statement that a Space Marine would be a match for a Wookiee might be one of the reasons the Empire pursues the program. Even a limited number of elite shock troopers that are a one-for-one match against the galaxy's strongest sentients, yet still have a fanatical loyalty to the Emperor, would be quite a potent force.

I hadn't considered this before, but Pegasus Base (one of the long-lost Star Wars D6 fan sites) had a story concept about the Cult of the Emperor, in which fanatical Imperials worshipped the Emperor as a god and sacrificed non-humans to him as part of their ceremonies. They would also eat the flesh and drink the blood of the sacrificial victims, in an attempt to absorb physical properties of that race, such as a Wookiee's strength or a Givin's resistance to vacuum. Add the omophagea implant to that, and...
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:


The are not only genetically modified from an already living adolescent human, they also have prosthetic internal vital organs in addition to their natural ones, as well as their anatomy being interfaced with their armor....

In 40K lore, a space marine is extremely difficult to kill out right: you would have to shoot out both of his hearts, for example...
...This is why I asked about the basic concept and how rare or common they are intended to be.


In 40k, basic human soldiers are T3, and carry a S3 gun. In SW, they are T2, and carry a S5 gun. Then again, in SW, combatants can be lightly wounded and fight on with reduced stats, whereas in 40k they are either incapacitated or not. Reconciling the numbers will be tricky.

I'd say early Space Marines (with their stubble, cigars, hastily improvised medical treatment, and unofficial slogans written on their armor) fit the SW lived-in aesthetic much better than the current ones. So how common would they be? Probably depends on cost-effectiveness. I find them less likely to be Imperial, and more likely to be some weird culture the PC's discover somewhere.

Genetically modified marines are no more advanced than creating a new warrior-clone out of whole cloth so I think the SW universe has the technology base to do it. Also. If the emperor dies in Star Wars, hyperspace travel will still work. Also zero-g assault trooper armor would seem to be pretty much better than space marine armor, only, it doesn't need to be interfaced with your spinal column. I think 40k is probably quite a bit less advanced than SW in many important ways.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
In 40k, basic human soldiers are T3, and carry a S3 gun. In SW, they are T2, and carry a S5 gun. Then again, in SW, combatants can be lightly wounded and fight on with reduced stats, whereas in 40k they are either incapacitated or not. Reconciling the numbers will be tricky.

The thing is, basic human soldiers in 40K were still capable of injuring or killing opponents, even with the numbers disparity, so it's not accurate to assume that a Strength of 2D = Toughness 2 and 5D Damage = S5. Crossovers are never a 100% fit.

Quote:
I find them less likely to be Imperial, and more likely to be some weird culture the PC's discover somewhere.

IMO, this depends greatly on what sort of crossover you're trying to do. If Space Marines are being ported over simply as a concept for enhanced human warriors, then they could probably fit in just about anywhere. If they're part of a large scale crossover, porting in as much of the WH40K universe as possible while maintaining Star Wars as the primary reality, then the options are greatly reduced. If they are still to be elite shock troopers in the service of a pan-galactic, authoritarian, human-centric Empire, well, there's only room for one of those per galaxy.

Quote:
If the emperor dies in Star Wars, hyperspace travel will still work.

In the Unknown Regions, however, hyperspace travel is more difficult, as routes are much more transitory. This was established in the Legends EU and has been carried over into the new canon, as well. That's one facet for populating the Unknown Regions with WH40K races; they're all pre-packaged with navigation methods to circumvent the shifting routes, whether it's Navigators or FTL travel that circumvents hyperspace entirely.

Quote:
Also zero-g assault trooper armor would seem to be pretty much better than space marine armor, only, it doesn't need to be interfaced with your spinal column. I think 40k is probably quite a bit less advanced than SW in many important ways.

My thought on this is that the spinal column interface integrates the armor's musculature with the wearer to such a degree that it negates the armor's Dex penalty.
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