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What do we know about Thrawn's childhood? POSSIBLE SPOILER
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject: What do we know about Thrawn's childhood? POSSIBLE SPOILER Reply with quote

-SPOILER WARNING-


I was reading trough, and watching some of the videos recapping the comics.

I think it is in the alliances comics, or related to the book (just got it, starting to read it tonight) we learn of force sensitive Chiss children, used as "navigators" for the most part, an who's powers seems to be fading away with adullhood.

without going into more potential spoiler territory this all made me wonder if consering all we have learned about Thrawn, and the "new" knowledge of these force sensitive chiss children, could Thrawn himself have been one?

Could Thrawn have been a force senitive child himself, though one who's powers have faded away?

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Pel
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That might account for his incredible insights, but I always found the study of a species' art to be very original and cool.

We know the Chiss aren't immune to or cut off from the Force because Thrawn needed ysalamiri to keep C'Baoth in line (besides the obvious Force Lightning issue), so the Chiss species could certainly have the ability to tap into the Force. Thrawn strikes me as the type to exploit any advantage so if he was Force Sensitive, he probably would have used it. Unless of course he didn't want to have Palpy breathing down his neck the entire time and Vader trying to kill him. Maybe Thrawn was smarter than everybody after all... Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

another thing that struck me is that he, Trawn seems very familiar and even somewhat "at ease" with force powers, and they don't seems to "amaze" and scare himas much as others.
And this despite what we can assume that the chiss force sensitves are quite rare, and if they are then force would seem more exotic and strange to the chiss.

Looking at the republic with 1000s of jedi prior to the order 66, still then it was a rare and awestriking thing to see a force user, and most never saw a difference between sith or a jedi, an force user was a "jedi" to most.

So i cam to rason, outside his awesome tactical abilities and studies of cultures and art, that his seemingly knowledgable lack of fear of the force could be becuse he had it, even if only as a child and a navigator, and who knows maybe the force is fading in everyone, even vader, only much much much slower.

If thrawn once was a force sensitive it would explain his lack of awe if you will to the aspects of the force
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, it would. BUT i would LOVE to know how they explain "you start with cool powers, but lose them as you age"..
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They'll probably go with puberty: pimples, hormones, loss of Force ability, the usual.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have examples in the real world of savants and prodigies; Thrawn seems to fit that pattern well enough. In Outbound Flight (which chronologically Thrawn's first appearance in the EU) he has little knowledge of Jedi and their capabilities, and this is a subject of conversation between him and Jorj Car'das. Of course, he picks it up rapidly enough that he is able to find a way to use those abilities against the Jedi aboard Outbound Flight, but that's sounds pretty typical of Thrawn, too.

If there is someone comparable to Thrawn in literature, it's arguably Sherlock Holmes. The two share an ability to make amazingly accurate logical deductions based on evidence that would escape the notice of anyone else. And Holmes didn't need the Force to do that. Personally, I think the ability to do the things he does without the Force is a big part of what makes Thrawn interesting.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how to explain loosing powers?

I think it can be reasoned in several ways, it can be through a reveal that the force it self is sentient and "does stuff"

We can also reasonably say that environment can influence, biology and the like.

Most likely i would think it a puberty thing, as we know from our world that children can develop lower or higher pigmentation, eye colors can change, and the like.

to me it seems the force power fades with "childish innocence" be it fuled by the light or dark side, s the child grows it becomes less "pure" and thus less a coduit for the force.

It can be explained in several ways, and we know form legends at least, not sure in canon any more that jedi have "lost their connection" to the force, KOTOR1 and 2 plays on that etc.

I would love personally to the force work in the way that if you don't use it and thus maintain your connection to it almost constantly then it will fade and you will loose the connection more and more.

something like that can explain how young inexperienced dark jedi, jedi , sith and the like are able to better and beat much "better" opponents often enemy masters or force users.

I would argue luke would never have been able to hold his own against vader skill by skill ( their special connaction aside)
and vader using the force often would keep him strong.

vader also easily overpowers the old fart, and if we look at the history and lore the old fart did use the force but not at all all the time, and not at all as often as vader.

with a fading connection through time and lack of "use" then much would make sense
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having various species gain or lose Force sensitivity / psychic ability / whatever is not without precedent in the science fiction as a whole. The example that comes to mind is the Squats from Warhammer 40,000, where their exceptionally long-lived Living Ancestors only become psychically gifted after they've surpassed the normal lifespan of their race. Their are various species mentioned in the EU that have multiple sexes and/or age-forms through which they progress over the course of their life, so having one stage be Force Sensitive is certainly plausible. It might even be fun to apply it to some of the extant races, like having Hutts reach a point in their lifespan where they lose their innate resistance to the Force and become Force Sensitive (ala the Living Ancestors).

It's a topic worth exploring on a larger level; I don't think it really needs to be tied into Thrawn.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we also have rules that allow for force emergence in player character after chreation.

I would think if the force move up, it will also move down
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean the ebb and flow of the Living Force through individuals over the course of their lifetimes? I like that.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is that the binary choice of Force Sensitive: Yes/No makes it rather hard to show the ebb and flow of the Force. It's either on or off. The only way it would work, IMO, is in combination with a Force Attribute.

But even then, Attributes only increase because there characters put a lot of time and energy into improving them, and there is no mechanic for decreasing attributes due to lack of use. It would make sense for some attributes to be decreased over time due to advanced age, but that's over the course of decades, and I've never heard of a campaign lasting long enough for that to be a factor. The only official character who had anything remotely like this reflected in game stats is Mon Mothma (see her stats in the Jedi Academy Sourcebook), and that was just limited to individual skills through lack of use.

I can see short-term penalties to Force skills/attributes due to short-term emotional or mental trauma, or as a result of weapons that inflict attribute damage (think ionization or stun penalties applied against attribute dice), but I don't really see how the rules for Improving Attributes proves that there must also be rules for Reducing Attributes.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The problem is that the binary choice of Force Sensitive: Yes/No makes it rather hard to show the ebb and flow of the Force. It's either on or off. The only way it would work, IMO, is in combination with a Force Attribute.

But even then, Attributes only increase because there characters put a lot of time and energy into improving them, and there is no mechanic for decreasing attributes due to lack of use. It would make sense for some attributes to be decreased over time due to advanced age, but that's over the course of decades, and I've never heard of a campaign lasting long enough for that to be a factor. The only official character who had anything remotely like this reflected in game stats is Mon Mothma (see her stats in the Jedi Academy Sourcebook), and that was just limited to individual skills through lack of use.

I can see short-term penalties to Force skills/attributes due to short-term emotional or mental trauma, or as a result of weapons that inflict attribute damage (think ionization or stun penalties applied against attribute dice), but I don't really see how the rules for Improving Attributes proves that there must also be rules for Reducing Attributes.





The becomming force sensitive is a 20CP buyable trait after character creation.
If a character can ( even with spent cp) all of a sudden force sensitive, then
why should not logically soeone be "quenched" as well.

I would not put too much game mechanics into it, as it seems it is a "pre template" thing with very young children, pre teens.

If i were to "rule" this in any mechanical way i would allow for a chiss species to use any "kid/child" type template to indicate a teen, then focus on how to do the force decay, and i would do that with allowing the chiss kis to be force sensitive :Y, no dice.
he did have some navigational abilities so most likely he had a sense 2D or more with instictive astrogation.

As it states that the force children of the chiss, "only" for the most part loose their abilities, then this allwoes for some to not loose them( aka a force sensitive and force "trained" character.

So what happens when they are adults and this is gone, well we can reason that they "lost what they once had" some chiss, i assume exeptionally rare.
and thus i would allow them to "rebuy" the force sensitive trait for 15, not 20, to represent that earlier connection.


I would also argue that it makes sense for force powers ( maybe less with the skills control, sense and alter) to at least decay somewhat, like other skills, if not used and maintained.ยจ

Try to NOT shoot a gun in 5 years and then see what a crack shot you used to be, but are no more.

So i don't think it can be made any mechanical rules on this outside story factors and specials, but somethng like a slight reduction in being allowed to buy force sensitve after creation, at 15 rather than 20 cp could be "fluffed" easily into something,like this
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, mostly, it sounds like a backstory aspect rather than something requiring actual gaming rules to duplicate.

And as I said, if there are no rules in place to duplicate skill loss from lack of use, I fail to see why we should make a special exception for Force skills, especially when there is no evidence of Force Sensitivity being lost through lack of use. Comparing natural Force Sensitivity to Firearms is like apples and oranges.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
we also have rules that allow for force emergence in player character after chreation.

I would think if the force move up, it will also move down


The only example in the legends we have of someone losing their force powers though, was in relation to Ulric Kel Droma who iirc had them STRIPPED...
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