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Realistic Small Craft Complements
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd maybe add in one step between average and veteran, calling it "seasoned".
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pel wrote:
I'd knock each tier down 1D (so Green is -1D and Elite is +2D). For one, you'll never have an all-green or all-elite crew. Two, rookie crews make mistakes and lots of them. Granted, they learn from them, but that takes time.

But the dice numbers for crew skill levels are already pretty low, and there are even discrepancies there. Look at TIE Fighter pilots, for example. Per the "Typical TIE Fighter Pilot" stats in the Movie Trilogy Sourcebook (SE), TIE Pilots have Starfighter Piloting 6D and Gunnery 5D, yet if you look at the stats for TIEs themselves, the pilots have Piloting 4D+1 and Gunnery 4D. For the fighter stats, the pilot would barely clear the base attribute for a fighter pilot...

And as far as multi-ship crews, "Green" or "Elite" would be more of an aggregate crew value than an indicator of individual quality. There could easily be raw recruits assigned to a Veteran ship, or experienced crew members assigned to a Green ship. The idea is more a representation of how well a crew work together.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I'd maybe add in one step between average and veteran, calling it "seasoned".

That works.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I'd maybe add in one step between average and veteran, calling it "seasoned".
So, where in this chart should I fit seasoned, and how much of the result percentage should it take up?
    2D Result (Odds) = Crew Rating (Modifier)
    2-5 (10-in-36)= Green (+0D)
    6-8 (16-in-36)= Average (+1D)
    9-10 (7-in-36)= Veteran (+2D)
    11-12 (3-in-36)= Elite (+3D)

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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2D Result (Odds) = Crew Rating (Modifier)
2-4 = Green (+0D)
5-7 = Average (+1D)
8-9 = Seasoned (+2D)
10-11 = Veteran (+3D)
12 = Elite (+4D)

This would be my best guess, Elite crews should be a rarity. I'll leave the odds to you. You're most likely to run into a Green or Average crew, plus as the players crews get better, you can always bump the odds toward the latter.
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
This would be my best guess, Elite crews should be a rarity. I'll leave the odds to you. You're most likely to run into a Green or Average crew, plus as the players crews get better, you can always bump the odds toward the latter.

On a 2D, there are 36 possible results, with '7' being the most likely (6 out of 36) with the odds decreasing the further you get from 7; 2 and 12 have a likelihood of 1 out of 36 respectively.

So, based on what you wrote above, the odds are...
    Green = 6-in-36
    Average = 15-in-36
    Seasoned = 9-in-36
    Veteran = 5-in-36
    Elite = 1-in-36

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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Wed May 15, 2019 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pel
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks like a reasonable breakdown. Elite crews are pretty rare, as are completely rookie complements. I keep wanting to spell rookie and cookie like Wookiee... I blame Star Wars. Smile
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, should the ready state of the starfighter complement be tied to the Crew Quality rating, or to the Captain's Command roll? I'm inclined toward the latter, as an experienced captain who has been newly assigned to a Green-Crew ship may be instituting changes in routine with an eye toward holding his crew to a higher standard.

There's also a question of how to roll Crew Quality for, say, a squadron of TIEs. Perhaps rolling for a basic Crew Quality for the Squadron as a whole, then randomly assigning additional modifiers for senior pilots, commanders and sub-commanders. For example, a squadron might have a general rating of Average, but then the Element Leaders would have an additional bonus of +1D, then Flight Leaders of +1D+2, and Squadron Leaders of +2D.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Raven Redstar wrote:
This would be my best guess, Elite crews should be a rarity. I'll leave the odds to you. You're most likely to run into a Green or Average crew, plus as the players crews get better, you can always bump the odds toward the latter.

On a 2D, there are 36 possible results, with '7' being the most likely (6 out of 36) with the odds decreasing the further you get from 7; 2 and 12 have a likelihood of 1 out of 36 respectively.

So, based on what you wrote above, the odds are...
    Green = 6-in-36
    Average = 15-in-36
    Seasoned = 9-in-36
    Veteran = 5-in-36
    Elite = 1-in-36


I'm okay with that breakdown, even if it means more average and seasoned than Green. I suppose in many ways it would work better anyway. The idea of a fully green crew is pretty unlikely, except maybe in certain time periods.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is looking more and more like something a GM would use pre-battle to plan out encounters, although it might be usable mid-game to flesh out a random encounter or something.

I think there should be a similar chart (possibly using the same percentages) for the Captain, with the modifier applied to their Command skill, so that a Green Captain would get a +0D modifier, while an Elite Captain would get a +4D.

So, here's the next chart:
    Step 1: Generate a base Command Difficulty for a ship, and a base Command Skill for the Captain, based on crew size. Use the following tables:
      Crew Size (including gunners) = Command Difficulty = Base Command Skill
      1-19 = Moderate (11) = 2D
      20-39 = Moderate (12) = 2D+1
      40-59 = Moderate (13) = 2D+2
      60-79 = Moderate (14) = 3D
      80-99 = Moderate (15) = 3D+1
      100-279 = Difficult (16) = 3D+2
      280-459 = Difficult (17) = 4D
      460-639 = Difficult (18) = 4D+1
      640-819 = Difficult (19) = 4D+2
      820-999 = Difficult (20) = 5D
      1,000-2,799 = Very Difficult (21) = 5D+1
      2,800-4,599 = Very Difficult (22) = 5D+2
      4,600-6,399 = Very Difficult (23) = 6D
      6,400-8,199 = Very Difficult (24) = 6D+1
      8,200-9,999 = Very Difficult (25) = 6D+2
      10,000-27,999 = Very Difficult (26) = 7D
      28,000-45,999 = Very Difficult (27) = 7D+1
      46,000-63,999 = Very Difficult (28) = 7D+2
      64,000-81,999 = Very Difficult (29) = 8D
      82,000-99,999 = Very Difficult (30) = 8D+1
      100,000-189,999 = Heroic (31) = 8D+2
      190,000-279,999 = Heroic (32) = 9D
      280,000-369,999 = Heroic (33) = 9D+1
      370,000-459,999 = Heroic (34) = 9D+2
      460,000-549,999 = Heroic (35) = 10D
      550,000-639,999 = Heroic (36) = 10D+1
      640,000-729,999 = Heroic (37) = 10D+2
      730,000-819,999 = Heroic (38) = 11D
      820,000-909,999 = Heroic (39) = 11D+1
      910,000-999,999 = Heroic (40) = 11D+2
      1,000,000+ = Heroic + 10 (41 and up) = 12D+

      Some example Base Difficulties:
        Super Star Destroyer (280,734) = Heroic (33) = 9D+1
        Imperial I Star Destroyer (37,085) = Very Difficult (27) = 7D+1
        MC80 Cruiser (5,402) = Very Difficult (23) = 6D
        Victory I Star Destroyer (5,200) = Very Difficult (23) = 6D
        Nebulon B Frigate (920) = Difficult (20) = 5D

    Step 2: Roll 2D to generate a Captain Quality modifier, which is then applied to the base Command skill listed above.
      2D Result = Captain Rating (Modifier)
      2-4 = Green (+0D)
      5-7 = Average (+1D)
      8-9 = Seasoned (+2D)
      10-11 = Veteran (+3D)
      12 = Elite (+4D)

      GM's may alter the modifier as needed to reflect the circumstances, such as a particularly incompetent political appointee Captain receiving an additional -1D or -2D.


    Step 3: Once you have the base values generated for a ship, roll the Captain's modified Command skill against the ship's base Difficulty, then apply the results to the following table:
      Command Roll > Difficulty by = Bonus
      0-2 = No bonus
      3-5 = +1
      6-8 = +2
      9-11 = +1D
      12-14 = +1D+1
      15-17 = +1D+2
      18+ = +2D
      Add 1 pip to bonus for every additional three points of roll success.

      Command Roll < Difficulty by = Bonus
      1-3 = -1
      4-6 = -2
      7-9 = -1D
      10-12 = -1D+1
      13-15 = -1D+2
      Add 1 pip to penalty for every additional three points of roll failure.

      For example: A Nebulon B (Difficult [20] Command Difficulty) has a Green Captain (Command 5D). At the beginning of the battle, the Captain's Command skill is rolled against a Difficulty of 20, for a result of 14. As a result, his crew suffers a penalty of -1D+2 to all their skill rolls in that combat.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to get this posted before I go to bed, but here's the first draft of how the Captain's Command roll affects the readiness and ship availability of his ship's fighter squadrons.

In addition, the Captain's skill level also affects the degree of readiness of any of the ship's starfighters. Any bonus or penalty generated by the Captain's Command skill roll is applied to the skill dice of all starfighters launched from that ship. The Captain's skill level also determines the starfighter group's readiness, in terms of how many fighters are already in flight when the battle begins and how many fighters total are available for combat.

Standard Operating Procedure
-Every squadron on the ship will have a 2-ship element on a standing 4-hour patrol.
-Every squadron will also have a 4-ship flight on Ready Alert, which can be launched in 2D+2 rounds, modified by the Captain's Command roll.
    Command Roll > Difficulty by = Bonus
    0-2 = No change
    3-5 = -1 round
    6-8 = -2 rounds
    9-11 = -3 rounds
    12-14 = -4 rounds
    15-17 = -5 rounds
    18+ = -6 rounds
    -1 round for every 3 additional points of success.
    NOTE: The ansolute minimum launch time for the Ready Alert fighters is 4 rounds, regardless of bonus.

-Every squadron will have an additional 1D+3 craft available to launch in 6D rounds (modified by the above chart). In addition, the number of additional available craft is modified by the Captain's Command roll (to a minimum of 2 and a maximum of 9):
    Command Roll </> Difficulty = Available Ships Modifier
    < by 13-15 = -5
    < by 10-12 = -4
    < by 7-9 = -3
    < by 4-6 = -2
    < by 1-3 = -1
    > by 0-2 = No Change
    > by 3-5 = +1
    > by 6-8 = +2
    > by 9-11 = +3
    > by 12-14 = +4
    > by 15-17 = +5

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Bren
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Realistic Small Craft Complements Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Honor has a touch of Mary Sue about her (being bad at math except in combat, for one thing)...
I forgot the math thing. My recollection of her big "flaw" was that it was her never realizing just how competent, charismatic, attractive, and just generally wonderful she really was. Laughing

Quote:
I agree, and that was actually my intent; "round" was poor word choice on my part
No problem. I read it as a literal game round. Sounds like we were already on the same page about how much rolling was needed.


Quote:
I don't know if I'd go as far as the division officers on a ship
I don't know that I would either. I was thinking divisions might make sense on large capital ship like a Star Destroyer or a Mon Cal Cruiser if a PC was the officer controlling a division. I've never had that happen, but I suppose it might someday.

Quote:
...but I can see a multi-tier system for GMs to generate a pretty granular unique crew for a given ship in a random encounter:[list]1) Roll on Chart 1 for Random Crew Quality Generator (modifier applied to stock stat's Crew Skill rating.
I think there may be some value there. And as a GM it's the kind of thing I tend to like. But from a practical standpoint of how it effects the players, unless the players have access to the crew stats* for the ship or the ship is one that the PCs will be likely to encounter multiple times this will often be more detail than necessary. Here's my why I say that.

If there are only a few die rolls being made the difference between a 4D and a 5D crew skill often won't be distinguishable from a few good or bad rolls made with just 4D (or with just 5D). So from the player POV it doesn't matter whether one or two good or bad rolls were due to fluky die rolling or a +/- 1D bonus on crew skill.

Quote:
Quote:
I'd only make additional rolls if the situation changes or if the captain is trying to specifically affect something, e.g.

Captain M'Klane put her hand on the helmsman's shoulder, "OK, Niko, you are the best pilot in the fleet. If you can't get us through this asteroid field, no being can. Now, take us in slowly."

Something like this could warrant an opportunity for another roll to get a better bonus.

I'd suggest limiting this just to PC ships, and letting the above system (whatever form it ends up taking) serve for NPCs.
That makes sense. My pseudo fictitious example used Captain Harmony M’Klane, a PC from one of my previous campaigns who commanded a captured ex-Imperial Vigilance-class Corvette.


* Obviously if the GM rolls the dice in front of the players so they can immediately see that the crew of the Venger is rolling 4D while the crew of the Obliterator is rolling 5D then the difference may be more meaningful for a single throw away encounter with an NPC ship.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
2D Result (Odds) = Crew Rating (Modifier)
2-4 = Green (+0D)
5-7 = Average (+1D)
8-9 = Seasoned (+2D)
10-11 = Veteran (+3D)
12 = Elite (+4D)

This would be my best guess, Elite crews should be a rarity. I'll leave the odds to you. You're most likely to run into a Green or Average crew, plus as the players crews get better, you can always bump the odds toward the latter.
I think the modifier is too high relative to the starting skill.

My recollection is that it's not unusual to see a ship with one or two crew skills at or below 4D and rare to see any or many skills above 5D. So in effect the Crew Rating modifier is going to potentially have an almost overwhelming effect on ship effectiveness. It also has the potential to generate capital ships where everyone on the ship has as good or better a skill rating as does any one player character. That doesn't fit the tone of Star Wars...or at least my view of the desired tone.

I will say that those skill levels aren't out of alignment with some WEG materials. The level of NPC skill ratings is clearly something that changed over time in the WEG published materials. In the 1E and early 2E adventures NPCs rarely exceeded starting player skill levels and were often very inferior to starting PCs. In the later materials NPCs with 8D, 9D, and 10D skills were not that unusual and worse still, were not called out in the material as being unusual for the setting. 8D was about the max for a PC skill in the campaigns I had and ran in, even when the PCs were played for scores of adventures and had accumulated multi-hundreds of character points for advancement.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is, based on the odds, a healthy majority of the ships are going to get - at most - a +1D bonus to all skills (assuming there isn't some off-setting penalty for having an incompetent captain). With '7' as the break point for the Average (+1D), it means 21 out of 36 ships will have a Quality modifier of +1D or lower.

Also, I view this as more of a guideline than a hard rule; if you as GM feel that the randomly generated Crew Skill level doesn't fit for the encounter you have in mind, you're free to adjust it as you see fit. The idea here is just to provide a framework for GMs to add a little granularity to their space encounters.
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Realistic Small Craft Complements Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
Obviously if the GM rolls the dice in front of the players so they can immediately see that the crew of the Venger is rolling 4D while the crew of the Obliterator is rolling 5D then the difference may be more meaningful for a single throw away encounter with an NPC ship.

I can also see it as a fluff option for a good Tactics roll; having both a Crew Quality and Captain Quality level to work with gives the GM the ability to provide feedback to the PCs as to the ship itself, such as nothing the general ability of the crew when it comes to their helm or gunnery, but also noting that whoever is in command is making stupid choices...
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