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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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 Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Draylo Star wrote: | But what if im fighting a dark sider and I dont have my light sabre and the only way I can incapassitate him is to hit him really hard with my fist and using the force to swing my fist harder to save lots of peoples lives
What im saying is that with this one and alot of other things it shouldnt be cut n dry who gets a DSP |
If you use Enhance Attribute to increase your STR you are safe from a DSP in the above situation IMO.
Im often 'lenient' with DSPs when fighting Dark Siders (for example throwing something at them with Telekinesis). On the other hand the characters will in different ways be 'tempted' / 'corrupted' by the feeling of using the force more violently. So while they might not have gotten a DSP, I keep 'a half DSP' (so to speak) in my notes for future use...  |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | I think the reason why TK Injure?kill grants a DSP automatically is mostly becuase a Jedi has to consciously get into wanting to kill that person.
With a lightsaber duel, it is most likely a matter of defense. The Jedi is either protecting himself or ohers from what would happen if he didn't stop the opponent.
However, IF the circumstances warranted it, a GM might not assign a DSP to a character if using such a power could be justified. But such justifications would require that killing the foe was the only viable solution available to the character, AND that the consequences of not using the power were terrible.
For example, Luke "gets away" with using the Force to destroy the Death Star, killing thousands of people, many of who were probably innocent, or misguided rather than evil. But the Death Star was a weapon that was being used to kill millions of people, so Luke course of action was justified. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Voice: Good. Good. Let the Force flow through you.
Luke: Ben? Ben is that you?
Voice: Use your aggressive feelings. It is the only way you can save your friends.
Luke: Stop messing around, Ben! This IS the Death Star we've been looking for.
Voice: Only your hatred, your anger can destroy this fully armed and operational battle station.
Luke: I think the proton torpedoes might help. Remember? Have you been drinking or something? You're the one who told me to switch off the attack computer.
Voice: Trust your feelings.
Luke: Look Ben, I can take a joke as well as the next guy who just had his family killed by the Empire save his sister who he has the hots for. There is a time and a place for everything. Now get with it.
Voice: Now, take your father's place at my side.
Luke: My father? But he's dead. I'm trying to avoid that Ben. Oh Crap! See what just happened?! I lost Biggs. I lost him because you were clowning around. First you freaked out Wedge and now Biggs is dead. I hope your happy. Uncle Owen always said you were just a crazy old man.
[Han]: Yee-haw! You're all clear kid, now let's blow this thing.
Luke: It's about time. Why couldn't you have said that five minutes ag... Han?, Han is that you?! Since when did you die?! Are you the one who got Ben drunk? |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: |
If you use Enhance Attribute to increase your STR you are safe from a DSP in the above situation IMO.
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I would give someone a dsp for having their str upped by Enhance and Attribute..
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: |
If you use Enhance Attribute to increase your STR you are safe from a DSP in the above situation IMO.
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I would give someone a dsp for having their str upped by Enhance and Attribute.. |
I put it into the same category as LSC. It enhances the Jedi but does not directly damage the opponent. Of course still subject to intentions and situation. |
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Draylo Star
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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Location: Auburn California
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| Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| See I think DSPs should be about intentions not what they did |
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| Draylo Star wrote: | | See I think DSPs should be about intentions not what they did |
That's too easy for players to break. Plus that whole intentions thing is a load of pucky. There's a saying " The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
Just because someone intends for something good to happen, does not mean that it is a good action. It's annoying too when you get players who separate their feelings from their character's. I've punished a few of my players for out of game comments made, because I read that as how their character feels, what they're thinking, then long arguments ensue... |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:16 am Post subject: |
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"The end justifies the means" does not sound very Jedi-ish..
Of course intention is also a factor, but not in the sense that good intentions lets you get away with questionable behaviour. However, even seemingly ok actions can get you in trouble if your underlying motives are not good and pure. Killing a stormtrooper to save someones it is about to kill is ok, but if its just to avoid the hassle of taking prisoners its not. |
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Draylo Star
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| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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In our first game they did pretty well
The two or three time they hit killed they just mortally wounded them instead
Poor Jawa Bounty Hunter with a broken Spine |
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cheshire
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| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | "The end justifies the means" does not sound very Jedi-ish..
Of course intention is also a factor, but not in the sense that good intentions lets you get away with questionable behaviour. However, even seemingly ok actions can get you in trouble if your underlying motives are not good and pure. Killing a stormtrooper to save someones it is about to kill is ok, but if its just to avoid the hassle of taking prisoners its not. |
I think I'm reading two different ethical paradigms represented in your post. I'm wondering if you could clarify for me. On the one had you speak of intentions letting you get away with questionable behaivior. Could you site an example of someone doing something with noble intentions, their actions being clearly immoral, and the person being culpable?
On the other hand you speak of "the ends justify the means," which is not intentions based, but ends (or consequence) based. Could you point to how a consequentialist paradigm is relevant to an intentions-based morality?
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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A noble 'intention' (ie 'the end) does not justify cruel behaviour (ie 'the means').
I actually say that even if intention is a factor when it comes to DSPs, its not the case that you can claim 'good intentions' and get away with questionable behaviour. |
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bobenhotep
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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"force punching" someone would convey dsp's if you did like a bloody ground and pound attack.
I think if you "force punched" someone and ko'd them, but didn't do anything else, i think you wouldn't get a dark side hangover. maybe a .1 dsp in the gm notes just to show a slow progression. if the character didnt do anything else worthy of a mini dsp, id let it fall off.
but i sure would let them know they had an uneasy feeling afterwards...
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| bobenhotep wrote: | "force punching" someone would convey dsp's if you did like a bloody ground and pound attack.
I think if you "force punched" someone and ko'd them, but didn't do anything else, i think you wouldn't get a dark side hangover. maybe a .1 dsp in the gm notes just to show a slow progression. if the character didnt do anything else worthy of a mini dsp, id let it fall off.
but i sure would let them know they had an uneasy feeling afterwards... |
In my player notes I actyall have a system where they kind of can get 0,2 DSP. Each time they do something bordering on an DSP they can get between 1 to 4 'checks' in my notes. 5 checks equals one DSP. Of course, the players dont know about this.. |
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