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garhkal
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 Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:36 am Post subject: |
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The think i never understood was why with the low max damage cap many weapons have, races wth a high str would ever go with melee weapons. Such as wookies. In ROTS we see many wielding large axes, but most cap out after the damage bonus at a 4d str, so the 5d wookies are already over cap.
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | I can't say for sure as I don't have any stat books with me but I have noticed that the simpler melee weapons (like the club and knife etc...) tend to have fairly low difficulties to use (generally easy) and the more complex melee weapons like flexible weapons and vibro weapons have higher damage and higher difficulty to use (often moderate to difficult). |
Esoomian, my initial recollection was that you were correct that vibroweapons had a higher difficulty and greater damage than normal weapons. But I thought I would do a quick check. Since there are a lot of melee weapons and WEG varies on how consistent they are in various source material, I have tried to compare similar weapons, one powered and one unpowered. I have also tried to use WEG weapons rather than conversions from D20.
Staff: very easy; STR+1D and Spear: easy; STR+1D+1 compare to Forcepike: moderate; STR+2D
Knife: very easy; STR+1D compare to Vibroshiv: easy; STR+1D and Vibrodagger: easy; STR+2D
Axe: easy; STR+2D compare to Vibroaxe: moderate; STR+3D+1
Sword: easy; STR+2D compare to Vibroblade: moderate; STR+3D, Vibrorapier: moderate; STR+3D, Powersword: difficult; STR+3D, and Lightsaber: difficult; 5D damage.
While not a perfect correlation, the stats I looked at mostly seem to support Esoomian's theory. There are of course exceptions, but that is hardly surprising. |
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | The think i never understood was why with the low max damage cap many weapons have, races wth a high str would ever go with melee weapons. Such as wookies. In ROTS we see many wielding large axes, but most cap out after the damage bonus at a 4d str, so the 5d wookies are already over cap. |
That appears to be a flaw in the rules. As a house rule, I typically allow weapons to do at least the weilder's STR in damage. One advantage of using a weapon is the ability to parry another weapon without the disadvantage that applies when parrying a weapon with brawling parry. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | The think i never understood was why with the low max damage cap many weapons have, races wth a high str would ever go with melee weapons. Such as wookies. In ROTS we see many wielding large axes, but most cap out after the damage bonus at a 4d str, so the 5d wookies are already over cap. |
That appears to be a flaw in the rules. As a house rule, I typically allow weapons to do at least the weilder's STR in damage. One advantage of using a weapon is the ability to parry another weapon without the disadvantage that applies when parrying a weapon with brawling parry. |
I usually do not use damage caps, as it seems a bit random which weapons has them and which dont, much like ranged weapons Fire Rate..
Sure, this makes hight STR aliens really powerful in close combat but so far I have only had Wookies and they go for brawling anyway because of the high 'default' skill level.
Before I had my own 'caps' for different types of weapons (for example ALL swords had 6D, not just the ones WEG had bothered with). I write 'caps' because they were 'effective caps' meaning that the weapon was most effective up to 6D. If the uncapped damage code would put the damage over this, for example 7D, the amount over the 'effective cap' was turned into 'pips'. For example, a 5D character wielding a STR+2D weapon with a cap at 6D would deal 6D+1 damage. If the wielding character would have STR 6D the total damage would be 6D+2.
After the weapons damage bonus in D was turned to 'pips'. That meant that a STR 5D character wielding a STR+2D weapon with a 6D damage cap would deal damage 5D+2.
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:14 am Post subject: |
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ZzaphodD, I thought I understood your house rule until I hit your last two lines.  Why would the damage be less than the cap?
Can you explain how this last part works since it seems to contradict the previous part you wrote where a STR 5D with STR+2D weapon with a 6D cap would do 6D+1 damage.
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | ...After the weapons damage bonus in D was turned to 'pips'. That meant that a STR 5D character wielding a STR+2D weapon with a 6D damage cap would deal damage 5D+2. |
I was thinking I liked your modified caps, but I need to first understand your idea before I can implement anything. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Does that apply if a force point is spent?
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Does that apply if a force point is spent? |
Yes. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | ZzaphodD, I thought I understood your house rule until I hit your last two lines. Why would the damage be less than the cap?
Can you explain how this last part works since it seems to contradict the previous part you wrote where a STR 5D with STR+2D weapon with a 6D cap would do 6D+1 damage.
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | ...After the weapons damage bonus in D was turned to 'pips'. That meant that a STR 5D character wielding a STR+2D weapon with a 6D damage cap would deal damage 5D+2. |
I was thinking I liked your modified caps, but I need to first understand your idea before I can implement anything. |
Ah, my example dont make any sense because of a miscalculation.
Say you have a weapon dealing STR+2D damage with a 6D damage cap. Normally you would hit max damage at wielder STR 4D. With my rule if a STR 5D character wielded the weapon STR+2D would put it at 7D, ie 1D over the cap. That 1D is then turned into +1, meaning that the final damage is 6D+1. If the character would have had STR 6D, the uncapped damage would have been 8D. That is 2D over the cap, meaning 'capped' damage would be 6D+2.
Edit: The lowest damage you can still deal is your basic STR.
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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So back on the insignia carving do we have some sort of consensus?
As for weapons over maximum damage cap a lot of people tend to let it do damage as normal but risk breakage.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Yup... that is how i handle it.. If a weapon is used and the wielder decides to go over the cap, he can. BUT any damage OVER that cap is applied as damage.
EG
Grog the gammorean is using a vibro axe. Normally his 3d+1 str combined with the 3d+1 of the axe maxes out at 6d+2, 1 pip under the 7d max damage value for the axe. BUT if he is on a force point he can go up to 9d+3 damage.
Since the max damage value for 7d is 41 (no 6 on the wild dice), if he does anything over 41, that is applied as damage to the weapons standard 2d body.
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | if he does anything over 41, that is applied as damage to the weapons standard 2d body. |
I always thought unpowered melee weapons should have a body strength of at least equal to their damage modifier. So a Sc’rath Togorian Scimitar
would have a body strength of 2D+2 whereas Ryyk Blades might only have a body strength of 2D
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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I can see that.. What of vibros though... 1d less due to the vibration tech?
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Bren
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Edit: The lowest damage you can still deal is your basic STR. |
So if Esoomian's STR 7D Esoomian "Tiny" attacks with a Gamorrean axe
| Quote: | Model: Gamorrean Arg’garok Axe
Type: Melee weapon
Scale: Character
Skill: Melee combat: arg’garok
Cost: 1,000 (250 on Gamorr or Pzob)
Availability: 3, R
Difficulty: Moderate
Damage: STR+2D+1 (maximum: 5D)
Source: Ultimate Alien Anthology (page 62) |
Then he does 9D+1 which (ignoring the +1) is 4D over the weapon max of 5D. Which gives a bonus of +4 or 1D+1. Therefore he would do above the weapon max damage of 5D and thus would do 6D+1 damage.
But your last comment says he would do minimum of his STR so therefore 7D damage, right?
In this case all the calculation was unnecessary. I'm thinking maybe it works better to do one of two things.
Option one, ignore the damage cap but use the break rules mentioned by garhkal.
Option two, tweak the damage cap as follows. After computing the STR+wpn damage, if there are dice of damage over the cap add +1 pip per dice not to the cap, but to the character's STR. Therefore in the example above, Tiny the Esoomian has STR 7D and this is over the weapon cap, we take the 2D+1 add and that translates to +2 bonus. So Tiny does 7D+2 damage with the Gamorrean axe. This way he does a little bit more damage with the axe than he would with a normal punch, but not a full 9D+1 which is more damage than a Space Trooper's proton torpedo does. |
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I can see that.. What of vibros though... 1d less due to the vibration tech? |
Something like that, I think I had a formula somewhere. Vibro weapons were -1D and unpowered bludgening weapons were + something because they were likely to be very strong in order to stand being slammed into various objects, and they didn't have to maintain a cutting edge.
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Bren
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | I can see that.. What of vibros though... 1d less due to the vibration tech? |
Something like that, I think I had a formula somewhere. Vibro weapons were -1D and unpowered bludgening weapons were + something because they were likely to be very strong in order to stand being slammed into various objects, and they didn't have to maintain a cutting edge. |
This sounds pretty reasonable. And seems to provide enough reality without the need to make each and every weapon have its very own Hit Points. After all this is Star Wars not <insert your favorite overly detailed Fantasy RPG here>. |
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