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Space vs Move
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Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 4755
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The problem there is that the games (WEG at least) had a lot more variety, in that some jumps could take hours, while others could take days or weeks (or months in the extreme). The general presumption was that the shorter jumps were either A) in close proximity to a well-traveled major trade route that allowed them to cover the distance much more quickly, or B) relatively close together, with the opposite being true of long-duration jumps.

The problem with the new canon is that they treat every hyperspace jump like its a short-duration jump, and even those that could be explained away by putting the planets relatively close together get placed on opposite sides of the galaxy when the Lucasfilm story group publishes its Visual Dictionaries.

As I said, it gets a lot easier to reconcile the old with the new if you just ignore the story group. Even then, it's still nowhere near perfect.

Well WEG said Tatooine to Alderaan is only 7 hours at x1 which even near a major trade route I thought was pretty ridiculous when maps of the Star Wars galaxy started coming out, based on publishing. And EU publishing put Toprawa literally on the other side of the galaxy from Tatooine with Alderaan in the middle, which really doesn't jive with the opening crawl saying that Leia was racing home. Tatooine is WAY out of the way to going home. At least canon resolved this by putting Scarif very near Tatooine.

There's not really anything definitive in the classic films that supports a wide variety of travel times. Without publishing (except the maps), short-duration jumps seem to be the norm in all the films. So updating the game to reflect the films would seem to solve the discrepancy with both canons.

CRMcNeill wrote:
Yavin was different; there was no higher value Alliance target that might be located by capturing it intact. Tarkin's intent was to make a political statement by wiping out the Alliance's leadership in one blow.

Except that Mon Mothma had plenty of warning and left Yavin before the Death Star got there. Alderaan was the political statement. With Yavin, Tarkin clearly thought he would be destroying the Rebellion by destroying that base. I think he underestimated the Rebellion's size because in my mind the Rebellion was spread out enough to survive any base's destruction, even Yavin.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11226
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
There's not really anything definitive in the classic films that supports a wide variety of travel times. Without publishing (except the maps), short-duration jumps seem to be the norm in all the films. So updating the game to reflect the films would seem to solve the discrepancy with both canons.

My read is that travel times are sufficiently vague in the classic films that it could go either way, and combined with my previous statement about the a galaxy-wide guerrilla war necessitating, at the very least, a mix of fast and slow hyperdrive times. This allows the Alliance to operate in relative safety in out-of-the-way places where Imperial reinforcements will be slow to arrive.

Quote:
Except that Mon Mothma had plenty of warning and left Yavin before the Death Star got there. Alderaan was the political statement. With Yavin, Tarkin clearly thought he would be destroying the Rebellion by destroying that base. I think he underestimated the Rebellion's size because in my mind the Rebellion was spread out enough to survive any base's destruction, even Yavin.

I agree with that; arrogance was certainly an institutional problem in the Imperial Military. However, that didn't make them complete idiots. Intelligence gathering is a key aspect of any long-term military strategy, and while the Empire might've been more willing than most to use weapons of mass destruction on populated planets, that doesn't make it their go-to choice. The Death Star was an exception in the extreme.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 4755
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
Except that Mon Mothma had plenty of warning and left Yavin before the Death Star got there. Alderaan was the political statement. With Yavin, Tarkin clearly thought he would be destroying the Rebellion by destroying that base. I think he underestimated the Rebellion's size because in my mind the Rebellion was spread out enough to survive any base's destruction, even Yavin.

I agree with that; arrogance was certainly an institutional problem in the Imperial Military. However, that didn't make them complete idiots. Intelligence gathering is a key aspect of any long-term military strategy, and while the Empire might've been more willing than most to use weapons of mass destruction on populated planets, that doesn't make it their go-to choice. The Death Star was an exception in the extreme.
Quote:
Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station... No star system will dare oppose the Emperor now... Not after we demonstrate the power of this station... Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration. But don't worry. We will deal with your Rebel friends soon enough.

No, destroying populated worlds isn't the go-to. They only needed to destroy one to demonstrate to the galaxy they have the power to do so and no moral qualms against it. They destroyed a Core World to demonstrate that no world was truly safe.

CRMcNeill wrote:
My read is that travel times are sufficiently vague in the classic films that it could go either way, and combined with my previous statement about the a galaxy-wide guerrilla war necessitating, at the very least, a mix of fast and slow hyperdrive times. This allows the Alliance to operate in relative safety in out-of-the-way places where Imperial reinforcements will be slow to arrive.

That makes sense to me and that is how it works in my SWU, but I have no issue with adding routes to make publishing system location of film worlds make more sense. I had to do that sometimes in the EU so that is nothing new with Disney publishing. The so-called "story group" is just a rebranding of an preexisting department. It is the same people doing the same crappy job they always did, but now their paycheck has a different employer name on it. The canon reboot gave them a chance to start fresh and make it right this time, but took that chance and flushed it. What we have now is basically EU2.
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