The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Hypermatter
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Adventures and Campaigns -> Hypermatter Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 10372
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:56 pm    Post subject: Hypermatter Reply with quote

In this topic, the subject of Hypermatter came up. For whatever reason, my thoughts have been coming back to this as an unexplored possibility for adventures. Because of hypermatter's usage in various reactors, it has parallels to the oil industry here on Earth. While I doubt that hypermatter's usage is as all-pervasive as that of oil, it is likely that there is an extensive industry built up around mining and distributing hypermatter...

My theory, as touched upon in the other topic, is that hypermatter is essentially the Dark Matter of the Star Wars universe. In the real world, dark matter is invisible, but theorized to exist based on its gravitic effects on nearby objects. Since the SWU has coterminous real space and hyperspace, with gravitic fields in one affecting the other, my theory for the purposes of the SWU is that what we theorize to be dark matter is hypermatter in the SWU. The reason that it can only be observed by its effect on nearby matter is that it is only physically present in hyperspace, yet its gravitic effect carries over into the real world.

With that in mind, here are some thoughts...

-Surveying: Scout ships with CGT sensors performing surveys of the gravity fields of planets or other large masses, looking for gravitic anomalies that might signal the presence of hypermatter.

-Extracting: Mobile mining platforms (similar to oil drilling platforms) that congregate at known hypermatter strikes and use static hyperspace wormhole generators to syphon hypermatter into realspace. Because of the volatile nature of hypermatter in real space, this would be a very hazardous, yet highly profitable undertaking. There could also be advanced mining platforms that use static hyperfield generators to transition into hyperspace and mine the hypermatter without the use of a syphon (think the submersible oil rig in The Abyss). In addition, there is the possibility of encounters with formerly unknown hyperspace-based monsters crossing over, or just attacking the miners...

-Processing: I'm just theorizing here, but it is possible that, like oil, raw hypermatter might not be fully usable in its basic form, and might require some sort of refinement before usage. Refineries could be mobile, and move from system to system with the mining platforms. Alternately, mobile refinery platforms could be towed through hyperspace to their destinations, performing the refining process en route (think the Nostromo in Alien).

-Distribution: Oil tankers in space. Highly valuable cargo for pirates, but also extremely hazardous if not handled properly. Characters could be involved in a campaign to steal, hijack, smuggle, etc, hypermatter for the Alliance, with the added restrictions and hazards of dealing with a cargo that could quite literally blow up in your face.

That's me rambling. Thoughts?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Site Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 3921
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the ideas you posted, but if hypermatter is dark matter than I would think you might need a little more sci-fi gobbledegook to deal with it in Star Wars.

In the real world, dark matter is concentrated near about everywhere normal matter is in the observable universe, and there is a lot more dark matter than normal matter (about 85% of all matter is dark matter). In SW, normal realspace matter having a gravity shadow in hyperspace is already a danger to FTL hyperspace travel, so you would think that hypermatter's own gravity would be a much more significant factor than normal realspace matter.
_________________
*
"Would you trade that necklace for a glimpse into your future? ...What do you know of kyber crystals?"
"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill... I'm gonna follow Jyn. Her path is clear."

"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 10372
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My read was that dark matter was still a sufficiently unknown quantity that even its existence was a theory. If nothing else, I'll just remove the reference to dark matter while keeping the basics.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
DougRed4
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 1806
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a fascinating concept. Decipher's Star Trek game has a small section (just a few paragraphs) on Dark Matter, but it's over a decade old, and I'd imagine even more has been learned about it in that time.

Even if it makes up 85% of the matter in our universe, it would still be possible for it to only take up, say, 50% (or even 20%) in the SWU.

What if (and here's a bizarre concept) our universe made up the realm of what (in the SWU) is hyperspace, but due to the distortion/interference nobody in the SWU can see the various planets, stars, etc. as they travel through it? Shocked
_________________
Currently running Villains & Vigilantes (campaign now 24 years old), d6 Star Wars, The One Ring, and occasionally Marvel Heroic Roleplaying
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Site Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 3921
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DougRed4 wrote:
It's a fascinating concept. Decipher's Star Trek game has a small section (just a few paragraphs) on Dark Matter, but it's over a decade old, and I'd imagine even more has been learned about it in that time.

Yep, it is my understanding there have been some advancement in our understanding of dark matter over the past decade.

DougRed4 wrote:
Even if it makes up 85% of the matter in our universe, it would still be possible for it to only take up, say, 50% (or even 20%) in the SWU.

The structure of the galaxies in the SWU wouldn't be anything like they are with that significantly lower amount of dark matter. Galaxy formation may not even be possible with only 20% or 50% of matter being dark matter.

DougRed4 wrote:
What if (and here's a bizarre concept) our universe made up the realm of what (in the SWU) is hyperspace, but due to the distortion/interference nobody in the SWU can see the various planets, stars, etc. as they travel through it? Shocked

We're in hyperspace? Whoa Doug, that's trippy! Shocked
_________________
*
"Would you trade that necklace for a glimpse into your future? ...What do you know of kyber crystals?"
"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill... I'm gonna follow Jyn. Her path is clear."

"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Site Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 3921
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
My read was that dark matter was still a sufficiently unknown quantity that even its existence was a theory. If nothing else, I'll just remove the reference to dark matter while keeping the basics.

The existence of dark matter is inferred from its gravity, which is very real. "Where there is smoke, there is fire", so it's a 'where there is gravity, there is matter' sort of thing. Dark matter is invisible in that it does not generate, reflect or absorb light or any other electromagnetic energy. But something has to be generating that gravity.

In Star Wars, it is already established that massive bodies unique to realspace cast gravity shadows into the coterminous dimension of hyperspace. Your idea of hypermatter being what we call dark matter would be the converse, so matter unique to hyperspace would also likewise effect realspace. It is reasonable that if there is matter existing within (and unique to) hyperspace, that the gravity shadows would go both ways. Stating hypermatter is dark matter is offering a possible explanation to why dark matter has gravity in realspace but cannot be otherwise detected, because the matter doesn't actually exist in realspace.

I rather love that idea! If hyperspace exists, we haven't discovered it yet. But in the Star Wars galaxy, hyperspace was discovered well over 25,000 years ago, so the existence of hypermatter within hyperspace could have been discovered. So if you want to go with hypermatter being what we call dark matter here on Earth, then I say go for it. You would only have to remove the identification of it as dark matter in-universe because they wouldn't call it dark matter in-universe.

My comment was merely pointing out that since the gravity shadow of realspace matter in hyperspace is well-established in SW canon as being a very significant factor to hyperspace travel, the existence of matter within hyperspace and it likewise casting a gravity shadow into realspace would seem to be an even greater factor due to the high proportion of dark matter to normal matter. But then again we are talking about another dimension of existence in which it is possible to accelerate and exceed the speed of light, at least relative to realspace, so [insert Treknobabble here].
_________________
*
"Would you trade that necklace for a glimpse into your future? ...What do you know of kyber crystals?"
"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill... I'm gonna follow Jyn. Her path is clear."

"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Raven Redstar
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 1726
Location: Pullman, WA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


_________________
RR
________________________________________________________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Site Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 3921
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I think it's an interesting concept to add some danger and flavor to the SWU. I like the idea of it, and I'd probably just run it with GM "handwave" and let it stand at that.

I must unlearn what I have learned! Yeah, I guess you could just say that hypermatter is already factored into the matter/gravity aspect of hyperspace travel and be done with it.

And dark matter seems to be like a fog around real matter, which means it is not nearly as dense. Hyperspace travel seems to allow uninhibited travel through space dust and the like. It is just the more significant objects with larger gravity wells that must be avoided. So the existence of hypermatter, even in a greater total amount than normal matter, may not normally pose any additional concern when travelling lightspeed.

Perhaps hypermatter clumps together in more significant amounts rarely and the clumps are what can be detected with hyperradio devices to be mined.
_________________
*
"Would you trade that necklace for a glimpse into your future? ...What do you know of kyber crystals?"
"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill... I'm gonna follow Jyn. Her path is clear."

"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 10372
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Perhaps hypermatter clumps together in more significant amounts rarely and the clumps are what can be detected with hyperradio devices to be mined.

That was the direction I was leaning, specifically, that hypermatter existed in varying degrees of concentration within hyperspace, the vast majority having no real effect on hyperspace travel as it is understood in the SWU. However, as the concentration increases, so also does its gravitic field, and thus its effect on realspace (as well as ships traveling in hyperspace). Only highly concentrated hypermatter is even detectable (and also the only kind really worth the effort of mining).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Site Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 3921
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good to me.
_________________
*
"Would you trade that necklace for a glimpse into your future? ...What do you know of kyber crystals?"
"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill... I'm gonna follow Jyn. Her path is clear."

"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2456

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, what if Dark Matter is Hypermatter?

Think about it. There is some object that for all practical purposes doesn't seem to exist, except that they somehow exert a gravimetric force. That is precisely what objects in "realspace" objects do to hyperspace. So what if the reverse is true and objects in hyperspace exert a gravimetric force on realspace?

"Dark Matter" could be just objects in hyperspace.

Kills two birds with one stone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 10372
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh...

I thought I just said that...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2456

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I got lost in the back and forth in the follow up threads. Embarassed

I really shouldn't do this stuff after being up 22 hours. Embarassed


Now could there be be actual hypermatter star systems with habital planets with whole ecosystems? And if so, would they be similar to their counterparts in realspace?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 10372
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose it depends what you mean by habitable. IMO, the entire fabric of hyperspace is inimical to anything from real space, and any contact between the two results in utter disintegration. In many ways, hypermatter would also be the SWU equivalent of anti-matter, due to its volatility and destructive potential. As such, any lifeforms found on such hyperspace planets would be completely unable to ever interact physically with realspace.

Naturally, there are some exceptions, like in the Otherspace adventure, but it was my understanding that Otherspace occurred in something of a hyperspace null-pocket...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Site Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 3921
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
In many ways, hypermatter would also be the SWU equivalent of anti-matter, due to its volatility and destructive potential.

Star Wars already has antimatter.

crmcneill wrote:
Naturally, there are some exceptions, like in the Otherspace adventure, but it was my understanding that Otherspace occurred in something of a hyperspace null-pocket...

Otherspace was described as a pocket dimension that was beyond both realspace and hyperspace, whatever that means.

crmcneill wrote:
I suppose it depends what you mean by habitable. IMO, the entire fabric of hyperspace is inimical to anything from real space, and any contact between the two results in utter disintegration... As such, any lifeforms found on such hyperspace planets would be completely unable to ever interact physically with realspace.

Natives of realspace enter hyperspace and return to realspace in their ships, so natives of hyperspace could possibly come to realspace in their ships. Maybe they had no reason to do so until natives of realspace starting mining their home for hypermatter!
_________________
*
"Would you trade that necklace for a glimpse into your future? ...What do you know of kyber crystals?"
"The Force moves darkly near a creature that’s about to kill... I'm gonna follow Jyn. Her path is clear."

"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Adventures and Campaigns All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0