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New Starship Damage Chart
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I can't honestly say my goal here was to make things simpler from a gaming perspective. If it has that effect, I certainly won't complain, but my goals were:
    1). Eliminating Duplicate Results: In two instances - Shields Blown and Severe Damage: Destroyed - a damage result was a word-for-word copy of something found on another level of damage. My goal was to make damage results a little clearer and better classified according to degree (you're Severely Damaged, not Destroyed)

    2). Incorporating Aspects of the EU: The Shields Drained result is a simple way of incorporating shield recharge rates, as seen in the X-Wing games.

    3). Interfacing with Other Rules: In particular, under my Advanced Starfighter Combat rules, Sensors are critical to locking on and firing guided weapons, so adding the potential for damage to sensors can greatly affect a fighter's potency in combat. Also, I've changed Ion Cannons and Ionization Damage quite a bit, so Ionization Damage needed some changes as well.

    4). Improved Storytelling Opportunities: Adding Catastrophic Damage gives GMs an opportunity to extract a story from a Destroyed result, in that, yes, the ship goes kablooey, but the characters just barely escape with their lives (escape pods, ejection seats, etc.)

    5). Improving / Correcting the RAW: Some rules were a little too potent (or not potent enough), or didn't fit well with larger scale combat. The Passenger Damage rules, for example, work fine for a starfighter or a space transport with a handful of crew, but do not accurately simulate the sorts of casualties capital ships can take in space combat. WEG also briefly mentions particle shields, and how a ship's Hull is -2D when if it loses its particle shields, but fails to mention how this can be achieved.

It's a hodge-podge of reasons, but I rather like the result.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Well, I can't honestly say my goal here was to make things simpler from a gaming perspective. If it has that effect, I certainly won't complain, but my goals were:


Some mechanics make things simpler. Others throw more doodads onto the frame. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Well, I can't honestly say my goal here was to make things simpler from a gaming perspective. If it has that effect, I certainly won't complain, but my goals were:


Some mechanics make things simpler. Others throw more doodads onto the frame. Very Happy


Nothing wrong with doodads if they're tasteful. Y'know, like the Millennium Falcon's windshield dice.

Speaking of those, were they only in ANH? I don't remember seeing them in any of the other movies....
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Bren
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
WEG also briefly mentions particle shields, and how a ship's Hull is -2D when if it loses its particle shields, but fails to mention how this can be achieved.

From page 109 of the Second Edition Rules
Quote:
Shields
Starship shields are electronic energy dampers which help defend a ship from damage in combat.

Shields come in two main varieties', particle and energy/ray shields.

Particle shields deflect all sorts of physical objects, including asteroids, missiles and proton torpedoes.
They are used at all times, except when a ship loses its power generator, or launches vehicles, missiles
or torpedoes
(the shields must be dropped to allow physical objects to pass through them).

When a strip lowers its particle shields, its hull code is considered to be -2D from that listed with the ship.


2E Revised & Expanded page 126
Quote:
Particle shields deflect all sorts of physical objects,
including asteroids, missiles and proton torpedoes.
They are used at all times, except when a ship launches
fighters, missiles or torpedoes
(the shields must be
dropped to allow physical objects to pass through
them). When a ship lowers its particle shields, reduce
its hull code by -2D. (A ship which loses its main power
generator also loses its particle shields.
)
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough, but in that format, it can get lost in the shuffle by an inexperienced GM or even an experienced GM trying to run a complicated battle. By including Particle Shielding in the actual Starship Damage Chart, it's a lot easier for the GM to manage as part of overall damage effects.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Fair enough, but in that format, it can get lost in the shuffle by an inexperienced GM or even an experienced GM trying to run a complicated battle. By including Particle Shielding in the actual Starship Damage Chart, it's a lot easier for the GM to manage as part of overall damage effects.
I'm not arguing with your modified tables. I just happened to remember that rule in particular so I thought I'd answer your question.

Personally I don't especially like that rule since PC ships often have missiles or torpedoes and I don't need nor want the players rolling two fewer dice to see if their ship becomes toast. Admittedly your changes give them a few more chances to get off a destroyed or dying ship alive. Of course if I had PCs flying around in a tank like the Millennium Falcon* and then firing concussion missiles to blow the bad guys up I might reconsider.



*
Han Solo and the Corporate Sector Sourcebook
    Hull: 5D+2
    Shields: 2D+1


Star Wars Roleplaying Game Second Edition Revised and Expanded
    Hull: 6D
    Shields: 3D
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
Personally I don't especially like that rule since PC ships often have missiles or torpedoes and I don't need nor want the players rolling two fewer dice to see if their ship becomes toast. Admittedly your changes give them a few more chances to get off a destroyed or dying ship alive. Of course if I had PCs flying around in a tank like the Millennium Falcon* and then firing concussion missiles to blow the bad guys up I might reconsider.

True. The thing is, I've come up with so many house rules over the years as part of a greater whole, and this damage chart is a piece of that puzzle. For one, I've changed up both ion cannon and missiles so that they no longer ignore shields, among other things. That Advanced Starfighter Combat topic I linked you to last week is where you'll find the greatest concentration of them.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
True. The thing is, I've come up with so many house rules over the years as part of a greater whole, and this damage chart is a piece of that puzzle. For one, I've changed up both ion cannon and missiles so that they no longer ignore shields, among other things. That Advanced Starfighter Combat topic I linked you to last week is where you'll find the greatest concentration of them.
I ignore ignoring shields.

Thanks for the link.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With respect to what we discussed here, if one is inclined to use Battery Dice on ship stats, it only affects the Lightly Damaged (Weapons) Result as follows:
    Rather than rendering a single weapon emplacement useless, a Lightly Damaged (Weapon) Result reduces a ship's Battery Dice in a given arc by 1D. If the Battery Dice is reduced to less than 0D, the ship no longer has functional weapon of that type in that Fire Arc.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, based on the conversation occurring here, I thought I'd bring discussion of a possible house rule solution over here. My reasoning is that, when combined with my Battery Dice and Scale System, there is a clear system of shifting dice values up and down rather than set numbers. Since the RAW version of the Specific Location Targeting rule also uses dice modifiers, but doesn't provide a rule for damage increasing in direct proportion to accuracy of fire. In effect, the RAW only provides for disabling fire at greater levels of difficulty, but makes no provision for smaller-Scale targets being more effective with more precise fire.

What I'm thinking, in combination with my revised starship damage chart is this:
    -The attacker must declare a specific result from the Starship Damage chart, subject to the following restrictions:
      Maximum Damage Level = Scale Modifier
      Severely Damaged / Destroyed: -0D
      Heavily Damaged: -2D
      Lightly Damaged: -4D

    -The attacker must select a specific system to be attacked (engines, weapons, maneuvering systems, sensors, shields, etc), and attack at +10 Difficulty. The target rolls Hull + Shields (as modified by Scale) to resist. A successful strike for damage by the attacker results in the damage inflicted as declared by the attacker prior to the attack. Failed damage rolls have no result.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Nothing wrong with doodads if they're tasteful. Y'know, like the Millennium Falcon's windshield dice.

Speaking of those, were they only in ANH? I don't remember seeing them in any of the other movies....

This post didn't age well...
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
Nothing wrong with doodads if they're tasteful. Y'know, like the Millennium Falcon's windshield dice.

Speaking of those, were they only in ANH? I don't remember seeing them in any of the other movies....

This post didn't age well...


Not sure what you meant by this, CRM.

In any case, nothing ages well given a long enough time.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
Nothing wrong with doodads if they're tasteful. Y'know, like the Millennium Falcon's windshield dice.

Speaking of those, were they only in ANH? I don't remember seeing them in any of the other movies....

This post didn't age well...


Not sure what you meant by this, CRM.

In any case, nothing ages well given a long enough time.

You made this post last May. Seven months later, the Falcon’s dice featured prominently in the climax of The Last Jedi...
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Sutehp wrote:
Nothing wrong with doodads if they're tasteful. Y'know, like the Millennium Falcon's windshield dice.

Speaking of those, were they only in ANH? I don't remember seeing them in any of the other movies....

This post didn't age well...


Not sure what you meant by this, CRM.

In any case, nothing ages well given a long enough time.

You made this post last May. Seven months later, the Falcon’s dice featured prominently in the climax of The Last Jedi...


Oh, that. But were the dice even real? Weren't those dice part of Luke's Force Projection? After all, he wasn't even really there on Crait. So how could the dice have been there if he wasn't? Did Leia grasp a "solid" Force projection of the Falcon's dice that promptly disappeared once Luke died or was she grasping a Plot Hole or... or what? Shocked Shocked Confused

...My head hurts.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
But were the dice even real? Weren't those dice part of Luke's Force Projection? After all, he wasn't even really there on Crait. So how could the dice have been there if he wasn't? Did Leia grasp a "solid" Force projection of the Falcon's dice that promptly disappeared once Luke died or was she grasping a Plot Hole or... or what? Shocked Shocked Confused

...My head hurts.

The dice were real on the Falcon and Luke touched them when he went on the ship. The dice on Crait were Force-projections which visibly faded away in Kylo Ren's hand.
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