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The Last Jedi (original spoilers thread)
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the TFA novelization was a bit of a throwaway gimmick, to be honest. Alan Dean Foster is back, and he’s doing the novelization, just like in 1976! My impression of ADF is that he does a pretty workaday job of transforming the script into a novel.

But the stakes with this TLJ novel are different. They hired a Star Wars continuity hawk (an “Essential Guides” author) and added the “Expanded Edition” subtitle to signal that this novel was going to answer a lot of your questions and hopefully quell some of your criticisms. I don’t think its canonicity is going to be treaded on as lightly as the ADF TFA book’s.

Also, they gave Rian Johnson permission to do whatever the heck he wanted, and, I’m not sure future directors will have quite as much freedom. Except Abrams, whom they obviously trust very highly. So there you go.

Anyway, I started to listen to the audiobook. Slow albeit somewhat interesting start. Even Zahn’s books tended to have slow starts, so, I should really stick it out. The problem is I feel detached from this whole storyline already. I still want to like it, but, it’s not coming easy.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Falconer wrote:
Anyway, I started to listen to the audiobook. Slow albeit somewhat interesting start. Even Zahn’s books tended to have slow starts, so, I should really stick it out. The problem is I feel detached from this whole storyline already. I still want to like it, but, it’s not coming easy.


I think I may buy the audiobook for TLJ today and start it tomorrow on my commute. I'm intrigued by the "Expanded Version" bit in the title. And, the sample on Audible focuses on Luke dealing with somebody (who dealt with Jabba)...which wasn't in the movie...and I live for stuff like that in a film novelization.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a thought....

J.J. Abrams has an opportunity here to really do something spectacular with Episode IX. He can right all the wrongs people see in TLJ, which I think can be boiled down, mainly, to one thing: Luke Skywalker.

People want to see Luke be the uber hero that he is, kick some real @$$, and save the day.

Well, the writers of Episode IX have the Force. And, we already know that people from the dead can come back to life as energy beings. First, we saw Ben coming to Luke as a teacher. In TLJ, we actually see the dead, in Yoda, effect the world around him by destroying the Jedi Archives.

If Yoda can do that....

Then we can have an unexpected moment when Luke pops up, kicks @$$, and saves the day, then fades back into nothingness, er, I mean, The Force.

Done right, people will be cheering. It will make TLJ more palatable. And, it will be one hell of a capper to the climax of the third trilogy.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
People want to see Luke be the uber hero that he is, kick some real @$$, and save the day.

Well, the writers of Episode IX have the Force. And, we already know that people from the dead can come back to life as energy beings. First, we saw Ben coming to Luke as a teacher. In TLJ, we actually see the dead, in Yoda, effect the world around him by destroying the Jedi Archives.

If Yoda can do that....

Then we can have an unexpected moment when Luke pops up, kicks @$$, and saves the day, then fades back into nothingness, er, I mean, The Force.

Done right, people will be cheering. It will make TLJ more palatable. And, it will be one hell of a capper to the climax of the third trilogy.

Luke is dead, so the ship of him being an uber-hero and kicking @$$ has sailed and we would all be better off just accepting that no matter how much we did or didn't like TLJ.

I'd be ok with Ghost Luke doing something but not too much because he is just a ghost. The character of Yoda was created because Lucas didn't think Luke could be trained to use the Force by a ghost, and all Yoda did in person was mostly impart imperatives and information, which ghosts can do (Yes, I know he did physically pinch Luke to make one point). Ghost Yoda calling lightning was an unprecedented shock that jolted me out of the film for a moment (puns intended), but I can re-suspend disbelief by the hand wave that well, it was Yoda after all. But I probably wouldn't like it if Ghost Luke does the dramatically most climactic action in Episode IX.

Luke was the central protagonist of the original trilogy. With the third chapter of that trilogy, Luke's climax was not crossing over to the Dark Side, throwing his lightsaber away, and standing up to Palpatine as a Jedi. But then after that a dramatically higher climax was Anakin returning and destroying the emperor. (Then there was still a chronologically subsequent climax where Luke, Wedge, and Lando escaped from the Death Star before it was destroyed.)

In the Thrawn Trilogy, the third chapter's climax had an unexpected dramatic bait and switch by marginalizing Luke and shifting the main protagonist to being Mara Jade. The prequel film trilogy served to set-up the drama of the classic trilogy, and thus the third chapter of the trilogy was tragic.

For Episode IX, I strongly feel we are long overdue for a traditionally constructed climax of the third chapter in a trilogy. This time there is no denying that Rey is the central protagonist of the trilogy. She, not Ghost Luke, not anyone else, should be the central figure of the highest climax of the film. Star Wars has a history of the first episodes of trilogies having the best climaxes, and now JJ Abrams has a chance to break that cycle. The stakes are high. Making Ghost Luke appear unexpectedly and save the galaxy would be fan service that would make a lot of classic trilogy fans happy, but I feel it wouldn't be so great if it shoved Rey aside dramatically.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Falconer wrote:
Anyway, I started to listen to the audiobook. Slow albeit somewhat interesting start. Even Zahn’s books tended to have slow starts, so, I should really stick it out. The problem is I feel detached from this whole storyline already. I still want to like it, but, it’s not coming easy.

I think I may buy the audiobook for TLJ today and start it tomorrow on my commute. I'm intrigued by the "Expanded Version" bit in the title. And, the sample on Audible focuses on Luke dealing with somebody (who dealt with Jabba)...which wasn't in the movie...and I live for stuff like that in a film novelization.

I'm looking forward to any thoughts both of you are able to share about the novelization, good or bad, during or after completing it.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Last Jedi Deleted Scenes, from the Blu Ray release...



There are some really exceptional scenes in this 12+ minute collection of deleted scenes. Not all of them are completed with special effects, CGI, and the like, but, damn! I can't believe some of these moments didn't make it to the completed film!

At least one scene is crucial to showing Luke's motivation in the movie, making his actions more believable. A couple of scenes had me chuckling. And, at last one scene was laugh-out-loud funny.

I think Canto Bite should have been shortened to allow some of this stuff to survive.

Besides the Luke/Rey scene, look for the awesome extended stuff with Finn and Phasma, and the scene with Rose and Hux.

This is definitely worth watching.

I hope the novel includes these scenes.

YouTube Clicky, Clicky
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I'm looking forward to any thoughts both of you are able to share about the novelization, good or bad, during or after completing it.


I decided to buy Episode I and II first. I had two credits, with a third coming up at the beginning of the month. I'll use that to get Episode III.

I'll probably be ready for something else by the time I listen to all of that, but I'm sure I'll get TFA and TLJ sometime before Episode IX comes out.

I understand that all of the prequel novelizations are dense with extra material and each better than the movies.

I'm about to find out. Starting Episode I tomorrow. Very Happy
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Falconer
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn’t get very far, I’m afraid. I liked the Prologue, but it’s basically a standalone short story only tangentially related to TLJ. Once it got into the main story of TLJ I remembered how much I dislike TLJ, and the novelization unfortunately wasn’t helping.

I don’t think there is more to Rian Johnson’s story than what got filmed, and I don’t care for his vision, anyway. So, it’s TLJ with some Jason Fry filling in the cracks, which might be semi-interesting in its own right, but since I am not in any way invested in this story, it all seems beside the point.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
I understand that all of the prequel novelizations are dense with extra material and each better than the movies.

Pffft! No, none of the first 8 Star Wars novelizations are "better than the movies." But I do feel that the prequel novelizations get better as they go.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
I understand that all of the prequel novelizations are dense with extra material and each better than the movies.

Pffft! No, none of the first 8 Star Wars novelizations are "better than the movies." But I do feel that the prequel novelizations get better as they go.


You're a fan of the prequels? Well, no wonder you use Palpatine as your avatar! Shocked
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being i am a user of Redbox, i have the opportunity to buy this movie (and rogue 1) for just 4 bucks each. I am torn though, over waiting till say this year's black friday sales, to get it in the proper box, vice a nameless jewel case though.. What say you all?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Whill wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
I understand that all of the prequel novelizations are dense with extra material and each better than the movies.

Pffft! No, none of the first 8 Star Wars novelizations are "better than the movies." But I do feel that the prequel novelizations get better as they go.

You're a fan of the prequels? Well, no wonder you use Palpatine as your avatar! Shocked

I'm a fan of Star Wars movies. The centerpiece of the entire Star Wars franchise is the films. Books are supplementary, and novelizations are secondary forms of the films' stories, like comic adaptations and radio dramas. Here's another shocker - Harry Potter books are better than the movies. I would have to say it is nearly universal that the original media is better.

But if the novelizations can help you appreciate movies you're not a fan of more, then more power to you for reading (or listening to) them.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
The Last Jedi Deleted Scenes, from the Blu Ray release...



There are some really exceptional scenes in this 12+ minute collection of deleted scenes. Not all of them are completed with special effects, CGI, and the like, but, damn! I can't believe some of these moments didn't make it to the completed film!

At least one scene is crucial to showing Luke's motivation in the movie, making his actions more believable. A couple of scenes had me chuckling. And, at last one scene was laugh-out-loud funny.

I think Canto Bite should have been shortened to allow some of this stuff to survive.

Besides the Luke/Rey scene, look for the awesome extended stuff with Finn and Phasma, and the scene with Rose and Hux.

This is definitely worth watching.

I hope the novel includes these scenes.

YouTube Clicky, Clicky


I really wished they had used (but couldn't because of insurmountable technical issues) that deleted scene between Finn and Phasma for two reasons: 1) because that scene emphasized just how much of a Dirty Coward Phasma was in TFA when Finn forced her to drop Starkiller Base's shields and 2) because of what happened when Finn confronted her right in front of her troopers about it.

And that scene is also awesome for a third reason. Two words: whoop hog. Cool
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
I really wished they had used (but couldn't because of insurmountable technical issues) that deleted scene between Finn and Phasma for two reasons: 1) because that scene emphasized just how much of a Dirty Coward Phasma was in TFA when Finn forced her to drop Starkiller Base's shields and 2) because of what happened when Finn confronted her right in front of her troopers about it.

And that scene is also awesome for a third reason. Two words: whoop hog. Cool


I totally agree. The scene does a lot for Finn's character, too.

I also wish the scene where Luke has a Force Moment with Leia were in the film. One of the things I looked forward to were seeing the old trilogy of heroes get back together, and they never did. It was nice to have something--some kind of connection--between Luke and Leia.

And, that scene with Luke, Rey, and the Caretakers should have been in the film. It does so much. It reinforces, underlines, and makes clear why Luke has fallen faith in the Jedi Order. The scene shows the bright purity of Rey. It shows us how advanced Rey is in the Force, with the Force Running and mere presence she exudes. The scene is funny. And, it ends with Luke re-thinking his position after Rey tells him that she no longer believes in the myth of "Luke Skywalker".

It definitely should have been in the film.

Take out BB-8 spitting coins like he's a stand in for R2 in the prequels, and put in that Luke/Finn/Caretaker scene.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I was looking at the grosses for the Star Wars films.

Adjusted for Ticket Price Inflation

1 Star Wars $1,310,298,200 5/25/77
2 Star Wars: The Force Awakens $992,496,600 12/18/15
3 Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace $778,700,900 5/19/99

4 Return of the Jedi $743,427,500 5/25/83
5 The Empire Strikes Back $723,955,300 5/21/80
6 Star Wars: The Last Jedi $619,795,600 12/15/17

7 Rogue One: A Star Wars Story $554,854,100 12/16/16
8 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith $544,599,700 5/19/05
9 Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones $477,472,600 5/16/02

10 Star Wars: The Clone Wars $44,955,900 8/15/08
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