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Why didn't the Alliance use X-Wings against Walkers on Hoth?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, I noticed you included the AT-AT in your list of vehicles that DO have sensors. Thanks for answering your own question.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Doesn't have them, or doesn't mention them? I notice the official write-up on Imperial Star Destroyers doesn't mention the restroom facilities, so it must get pretty messy in the hallways in your SWU. Unless you assume that an omission by the writers does not mean that said omitted tech is specifically excluded.

LOL. Some light freighter deckplans don't even have a "head" either but obviously they have to be there.

CRMcNeill wrote:
If a little POS speeder on a backwater planet has at least basic sensor capacity, it is not unreasonable to assume that other, more advanced vehicles (especially those designed for combat) would also have at least basic sensor capacity (and probably far more advanced).

I'm quite certain there is a thread somewhere that discusses at least repulsorlift vehicles having a sensor package, perhaps even a thread started by you?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You’re quite right; when I redid the vehicle stats, I gave everything at least Passive sensors, with military vehicles having full-up sensor stats, just like starships.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
BTW, I noticed you included the AT-AT in your list of vehicles that DO have sensors. Thanks for answering your own question.


It answered it for AT-ATs. but not lukes sensors in ANH when he talks about R2..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
BTW, I noticed you included the AT-AT in your list of vehicles that DO have sensors. Thanks for answering your own question.


It answered it for AT-ATs. but not lukes sensors in ANH when he talks about R2..

The only reason Luke’s speeder was mentioned AT ALL was because you wondered whether or not the AT-AT had sensors.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sat May 26, 2018 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here we are in another thread. Can we please ease up on the tone?
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wondered, could the reason why the rebels didn't use X wings on hoth, have to with us seeing the ground battle and not the above space battle ( that would have been going on) and that the x wings would have been best used in the space battle


Looking at the battle secenes, we see and hear Leia brief and order the fighters to be escorts to the transports ( two to a ship) then make a hyperspace jump.
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
I just wondered, could the reason why the rebels didn't use X wings on Hoth, have to with us seeing the ground battle and not the above space battle ( that would have been going on) and that the x wings would have been best used in the space battle


Looking at the battle scenes, we see and hear Leia brief and order the fighters to be escorts to the transports (two to a ship) then make a hyperspace jump.


I highly doubt there was a space battle between whatever X-wings the rebels had at Hoth (a couple of squadrons at most?) and the entirety of Death Squadron (at least 5 ImpStars and the friggin' SSD Executor) because that battle would have been entirely one-sided considering that the TIE fighter complement of Death Squadron alone (72 fighters per each ImpStar x 5 = 360 which is added to the Executor's fighter complement of 12 squadrons, which is 12 x 12 = 144, so 144 + 360 = 504 TIE fighters) would have been way more than enough to establish space superiority if the rebels had tried to make a stand above Hoth. Instead they did what they should have done: 1) send 2 X-wings to escort each of the transports so that they wouldn't be completely undefended and 2) get the hell out of dodge ASAP.

And as I mentioned in my previous post, Hobbie even lampshaded the ludicrous one-sidedness of sending 2 X-wings against a Star Destroyer, but at least here, the rebels had the v-150 ion cannon to clear the way off Hoth and through Death Squadron to the safety of hyperspace.

The point is (and I tried to make this same point in my previous post), if the rebels had tried to fight a space battle above Hoth instead of fleeing, they would have been crushed in short order. Death Squadron's power projection was that overwhelming.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
I just wondered, could the reason why the rebels didn't use X wings on Hoth, have to with us seeing the ground battle and not the above space battle ( that would have been going on) and that the x wings would have been best used in the space battle


Looking at the battle scenes, we see and hear Leia brief and order the fighters to be escorts to the transports (two to a ship) then make a hyperspace jump.


I highly doubt there was a space battle between whatever X-wings the rebels had at Hoth (a couple of squadrons at most?) and the entirety of Death Squadron (at least 5 ImpStars and the friggin' SSD Executor) because that battle would have been entirely one-sided considering that the TIE fighter complement of Death Squadron alone (72 fighters per each ImpStar x 5 = 360 which is added to the Executor's fighter complement of 12 squadrons, which is 12 x 12 = 144, so 144 + 360 = 504 TIE fighters) would have been way more than enough to establish space superiority if the rebels had tried to make a stand above Hoth. Instead they did what they should have done: 1) send 2 X-wings to escort each of the transports so that they wouldn't be completely undefended and 2) get the hell out of dodge ASAP.

And as I mentioned in my previous post, Hobbie even lampshaded the ludicrous one-sidedness of sending 2 X-wings against a Star Destroyer, but at least here, the rebels had the v-150 ion cannon to clear the way off Hoth and through Death Squadron to the safety of hyperspace.

The point is (and I tried to make this same point in my previous post), if the rebels had tried to fight a space battle above Hoth instead of fleeing, they would have been crushed in short order. Death Squadron's power projection was that overwhelming.



My point with space battle was that the x wings as seen are told to act as escorts, and most likely this is what they did, allowing the more important transports to escape.

Now we don't have anything significant in terms of space combat during hoth, but the mere escorting and escape makes comabt very likely and we do see leia order at least some x wings ( and I assume other fighters) to be escorts under cover of the heavy ion cannon(s)
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought that the reasons the X-wings were not used on Hoth were multi-fold.

First, they probably thought the Snow Speeders had enough firepower to deal with the Walkers. Considering what was seen in Scarif, it's not an outlandish thing to think. Those walkers were dropped even from side-mounted personnel weapons. The Walkers on Hoth ended up having MUCH stronger armor.

Second, they needed the fighters to protect the transports as they moved off the planet. Yes, some of the pilots of the Snow Speeders were the X-Wing pilots, but I'm betting they wanted freshly fueled and ready fighters for the escape, rather than potentially battle damaged fighters.
The fact that "the first transport is away!" was called out while the ground war was still being fought indicates that they needed those fighters for escorts rather than to fight against AT-ATs.

Third, the Rebel Command knew that staying on the planet was a lost effort, even before the first Imperial transports landed on the planet to deploy the walkers. They were starting the evacuation the moment they detected the Imperial fleet. So the ground battle was simply a holding action. Delay the ground forces long enough to allow the base to be evacuated. Then pull the last of the combatants out on the last transport. Sabotage the Snow Speeders that made it back, as it's easier to lose those than to lose a battle damaged X-Wing. Then the pilots can fly away in fully fueled, ready for battle X-Wings!
It would have been MUCH more of a loss if even ONE X-Wing was lost in a ground battle against Imperial Walkers for something like a holding action.
So sure, the X-Wing probably could have damaged or destroyed an AT-AT. In the game they can because of scale. BUT, there's also a chance that an AT-AT can bring down an X-Wing, and that is much more damaging to the Rebel evacuation attempts.

So whether the X-Wings had to battle fighters or not, every X-Wing would have been needed to protect the transports that fled the planet. Damaged X-Wings would not have fared as well against the potential fighter pickets that the Imperials were sure to throw at the fleeing transports.
The Ion cannon could deal with the big ships, but it couldn't deal with the fighters that were already out on picket duty, or were launched at the first sign of approaching Rebel craft. That job goes to the TWO X-Wings dedicated as escorts.
Now would YOU want to be an X-Wing pilot who got to do that job by yourself because your partner X-Wing was shot down on Hoth for a holding action? Even if an X-Wing pilot WAS shot down in a Snow Speeder, someone else could still fly the X-Wing for an escort. But you can't fly a Snow Speeder into space as an escort.
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