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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16178 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:50 pm Post subject: Terminator Crossover |
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So, I have this basic concept for a Terminator crossover into the post-Endor era.
It's an established part of the canon that, post-Endor, the various Imperial remnant factions tried to leverage technological innovations to secure and/or advance their own power and influence. I've already posited the idea of a TIE Droid Brain that could be swapped into any TIE model during construction, and that got me thinking about other possibilities. An obvious extension of that idea would be a humanoid droid that could be put inside stormtrooper armor, and from there, the similarities to the Terminator just keep getting stronger. Considering that cybernetics in the SWU can be made to mimic organic parts, it wouldn't be at all hard to vary the size and proportions of the basic human frame to make human (or any alien species) appearing infiltration models.
As a background, I'm picturing an Imperial Remnant faction that has the stockpiles / manufacturing capability to produce starfighters, storm trooper armor, personal weapons, etcetera in bulk, but lacks the manpower to match. So, despite the cultural taboos of using battle droids, they begin to manufacture droids for use as troops, ship crew, etc.
I can also see a potential tie-in with General Arndall Lott's slave-rigged walker units (Wanted by Cracken, pgs. 10-14), since it's not much of a leap from slave-rigging walkers to putting autonomous droid brains into them, or any of the Imperial Army's other ground or aerial vehicles. From there, you can introduce the various Hunter-Killer models, especially considering Dark Empire already gave us the Droid Tank, which is really a pale shadow of the HK-Tank.
Anyway, just wanted to get that out there. Thoughts? _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10297 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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At first I thought this was going to be about metamorphosing metal droids. Whew!
Droid stormtroopers are already a thing in Legends and Canon: Dark Troopers. Human replica droids are also already a thing at least in Legends. I don't see the advantage of making what is inside the stormtrooper armor look human since what is under the armor ideally stays hidden by the armor.
Now if by 'infiltration models' you mean droid stormtroopers that are pretending to be living stormtroopers to infiltrate Imperial forces, wouldn't that be used against Imperial factions by the New Republic or rival Imperial factions?
Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying? (That is certainly possible.) _________________ *
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16178 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Whill wrote: | Droid stormtroopers are already a thing in Legends and Canon: Dark Troopers. Human replica droids are also already a thing at least in Legends. |
Yes, but both are distinct from this idea in their own way. A Dark Trooper is visually distinct from standard stormtroopers, and the later models were much larger, able to operate either autonomously or as a wearable exoskeleton. An HRD is both expensive and able to pass as a human because they are effectively a biological droid, replicating human anatomy except for a droid brain running the whole thing.
This is something of a middle ground; if you put one of these in stormtrooper armor, it's at least superficially indistinguishable from a stormtrooper until it starts doing - and surviving - things that a normal stormtrooper can't. If you put it in a skin suit, a human would be hard pressed to tell the difference, but creatures who rely more heavily on other senses (such as dogs, which always reacted negatively to Terminators) will be able to see right through it. Which is in keeping with the spirit of the crossover.
The advantage with respect to the Dark Trooper or an HRD is in cost (much easier to mass-produce), versatility and subtlety. You don't have to build a bespoke model like a Dark Trooper and you don't have to shell out several million credits per unit like an HRD. You can just build one basic frame sized to fit inside a suit of stormtrooper armor, then change up the armor depending on the circumstances. The infiltration models get a little more bespoke because they have to be sized to fit whatever you're trying to mimic. Something like the Arnold-version of the Terminator works fine for a combat infiltration model, but if you're trying to mimic, say, a human female or a Twi'lek, there need to be some custom alterations made to the frame and the skin suit to pull it off.
Quote: | I don't see the advantage of making what is inside the stormtrooper armor look human since what is under the armor ideally stays hidden by the armor. |
That'd be two different things. The endoskeleton put into stormtrooper armor wouldn't look human at all; the skin suit Terminators would be used in roles where armor wasn't necessary or suitable, such as ship crew or infiltration type missions.
Quote: | Now if by 'infiltration models' you mean droid stormtroopers that are pretending to be living stormtroopers to infiltrate Imperial forces, wouldn't that be used against Imperial factions by the New Republic or rival Imperial factions? |
No. Infiltration models would be Terminator endoskeletons in skin suits instead of stormtrooper armor, who are used on missions where they need to look human.
Quote: | Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying? (That is certainly possible.) |
Yes. The general concept here is that the Imperial faction in question is trying to keep its use of such droids quiet, as there is still a lot of antipathy among the general populace w/r/t armed droids. So this faction comes up with a humanoid endoskeleton that can be clad in stormtrooper armor and be indistinguishable from a stormtrooper so long as the helmet is on, or that can be clad in a full skin suit and blend in with other humans, so long as those with the senses to detect such things don't get involved. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Dr. Bidlo Commander
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Joined: 24 Nov 2021 Posts: 440 Location: Arizona, USA
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Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Whill wrote: | At first I thought this was going to be about metamorphosing metal droids. Whew! |
Actually... this does already exist. There is a 'Polydroxol' enforcer named Morph in the Treasure Hunt adventure in Twin Stars of Kira, buy that same adventure also has a starfish and an ant alien too, so... |
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Whill Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 10297 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Bidlo wrote: | Whill wrote: | At first I thought this was going to be about metamorphosing metal droids. Whew! |
Actually... this does already exist. There is a 'Polydroxol' enforcer named Morph in the Treasure Hunt adventure in Twin Stars of Kira, buy that same adventure also has a starfish and an ant alien too, so... |
Polydroxol are a metallic shapeshifting living species, but they were very likely inspired by the T-1000 "robot" (just like the Iskalloni are inspired by Star Trek's Borg). Some form of Polydroxol may exist in my SWU, but likely without the shapeshifting ability (I'll decide when I run that adventure.)
The starfish and other alien are cool by me. By the way, it is a spider alien, not an ant alien. They have more than 6 limbs, their species name is Arachnoids, and the character is described as resembling a spider. _________________ *
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16178 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Polydroxol and Iskalloni are the two most obvious examples of WEG resorting to cheap copies of other sci-fi universes. The T-1000 and the Borg are both iconic in their own respective settings. I much prefer WEG's later take on metamorphs in the form of the Cree-Va (D6 Space Aliens, pgs. 89-92), using a mass of tiny insects instead of "mimetic polyalloy".
For the purposes of this crossover, though, I prefer to stick to the tech level of Terminators as seen in the first film. That level of droid tech is roughly on par with (or marginally ahead of) the tech level seen in the SWU, so it's not a huge leap to picture an Imperial Remnant coming up with that sort of innovation. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Dr. Bidlo Commander
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:45 am Post subject: |
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So what you are talking about is basically an assassin Droid with artificial skin to appear human (or humanoid). That is not a huge leap... |
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Raven Redstar Rear Admiral
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Cool crossover idea, and I think it's totally plausible. Especially in the post Endor era. The scary thing would be having the Star Wars version of Skynet taking over that sector and wiping out all organic life. _________________ RR
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16178 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Bidlo wrote: | So what you are talking about is basically an assassin Droid with artificial skin to appear human (or humanoid). That is not a huge leap... |
At the high end, yes. Terminators as depicted in the films have a pretty massive knowledge / skill base, which speaks to a pretty expensive droid / droid brain in SWU cost terms. I'm thinking that the independent infiltration models will have something approaching this sort of broad skillset, but the pure combat models will have a narrower focus. If the idea is just for the droid to be a stand-in for cannon fodder, it doesn't need to have detailed files on human anatomy or know the specifics of hot-wiring a speeder. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16178 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Raven Redstar wrote: | Cool crossover idea, and I think it's totally plausible. Especially in the post Endor era. The scary thing would be having the Star Wars version of Skynet taking over that sector and wiping out all organic life. |
I can see something headed in that direction, like the Remnant Faction ins question developing a Tactics and Strategy AI to assist them in their planning that slowly usurps command and control, to the point where the rank-and-file humans aren't even aware that they're being commanded by a machine. I'm reminded of the sequences in Terminator: Salvation where Skynet mimicked humans when speaking to Marcus Wright. It would be relatively easy to do the same via holo-comm.
I don't know if I'd go as far as wiping out all organic life in a sector, though. That would attract a lot of unnecessary attention, and there is more than enough combat power in the galaxy to put down a sector's worth of droid rebels. I see it operating more behind the scenes, especially w/r/t the anti-droid biases of the general populace post-Clone Wars.
No crossover is ever an exact fit, of course. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Ray Commodore
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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"I need your clothes, your boots, and your swoop." "You forgot to say 'Please'." |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16178 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Ray wrote: | "I need your clothes, your boots, and your swoop." "You forgot to say 'Please'." |
Obviously, time travel is one of those parts of the crossover that isn't going to survive the cut. The closest thing I have in my stat archive would be the WH40K-type teleporter, which actually inflicts Stun damage to anyone transported in it. Obviously, that wouldn't affect a droid in a skin suit. _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Mamatried Commodore
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Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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GURI or actually most Human Replic Droids, would fit perfectly for a T-800 type build.
It states in the desctiption that it is a droid/metal body covered in clone vatted human skin and flesh, so I would see this be a good fit since it is a drod, to have the vision enhancements, the added speed and strength etc etc, all easy to do with a "regular" human replica droid.
As to time travel, I would argue that some form of "instant" tleporting, maybe a 2-3 charge ability, can easily mimic actual time travel.
We travel for 5 days to coruscant to escape the Terminator, now he is there .
as to the inital arrival, lets say he is from another galaxy like one of the companions, and the time this takes is again the time travelled by the terminator instant teleport thing
As for something more in the line of liquid metal, I can only suggest making a species of sorts |
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willg Lieutenant Commander
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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I was going to mention Guri.
My suggestions?
From the Terminator lore, I can pull a few ideas. One question is the Infiltrator droid just meant to pass a humanoid or is it meant to look like, say some relatively high-ranking member of the resistance?
For the Latter may I recommend the TS-300?
https://terminator.fandom.com/wiki/TS-300
"The TS-300 is a stealth Infiltrator featuring ceramic endoskeletons, and personality transfer software to create undetectable one-off copies of real human beings. They have physiology, complete with organ systems, and lifelike pheromones that even deceive animal detection. Its improved musculature means it has faster reactions and is stronger than a T-8xx. Each TS-300 is equipped with the EM sensor masking/stealth unit which enables these TS-300 to deceive electronic detection systems."
Also, http://mightymuttsquad.raptorsquad.net/crossover/terminator.htm
It might help redefine what you're looking to make through a Star Wars lens.
The KelPeth T-800 Combat Replica Droid
created by James Cameron and Harlan Ellison.
Kelpeth T-800 Combat Replica Droid
Dexterity: 4D+2
Blaster 6D, Brawling Parry 5D, Firearms 6D, Grenade 6D, Melee Combat 6D, Melee Parry 5D
Knowledge: 3D
Scholar: Human Anatomy 8D, Survival: Wasteland 6D,Languages 10D, Intimidation 7D,
Scholar: Kelpeth Systems 6D
Mechanical: 3D+2
Ground Vehicle Operation 6D
Perception: 3D
Investigation 7D, Search 8D
Strength: 6D
Brawling 8D, Climbing/Jumping 7D, Lifting 8D, Stamina 8D
Technical: 3D+2
Blaster Repair 6D, Firearms Repair 6D, Demolition 7D, First Aid 6D, Ground Vehicle Repair 6D, Security, 7D
Move: 12
Equipped with:
Humanoid Construction
Vocabulator
Enhanced Visual Receptors (+2D to any sight-based action)
Adaptive Learning Circuitry
Life Support Circuitry: Power source and/or CPU must be shut down/destroyed before a terminator will stop hunting
Disadvantages:
Dogs bark at the smell of a terminator.
Human Skin: Destroyed on incapacitated, but terminator is unharmed (unless it’s a MAJOR wound)
History in the Kilb-iverse:
The 'T' class replica droids initially started off as a safe alternative to using human miners by the Kelpeth Corporation on Maltus-5, as it turned out the mining coalition got up in arms about the fact that they were being wedged out of lucrative contracts and protested. The millions of credits invested in the droids caused Kelpeth to rethink their idea and they then took to fashioning the droids with a synthetic flesh to integrate them in with the workers. When the mining interests that the Kelpeth corporation held took a turn for the worse they sold their holdings and moved the droids into 'combat' operations selling them to the highest bidder. The problem became that the Empire began to restrict the sales of droids and slapped restrictions of how droids could act and function. Kelpeth has ordered to cease any further production of the 'T' line. They did so, in accordance with the law, but they had millions of units and sold them off to the highest bidders with all the replacement parts the buyer could carry to recoup their losses.
The Mutt Squad only ever encountered the 'T' line once, it was during a kidnapping attempt on Otas Sands, they fought the two droids until they were both destroyed. In the end Stromgald Caballa had this to say...
"They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear and it absolutely will not stop EVER, until you are dead!" |
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CRMcNeill Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010 Posts: 16178 Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Some interesting possibilities here, but I think some of the entries are a bit superficial. For instance, I'd much rather have a rule about how characters or species with a strong sense of smell have an advantage in seeing through the disguise (or at least knowing something is off about the terminator) than simply saying "dogs bark at the smell of them". There's also the Scholar: Human Anatomy. Yes, it's a direct takeaway from the line in Terminator 2, but how is it actually useful in a game? Far better, IMO, to give it dice in First Aid (and maybe Medicine, as well). _________________ "No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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