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The Star Wars Canon reset button has been pressed
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:34 pm    Post subject: Post-EU Aftermath Reply with quote

http://www.starwars.com/news/what-happened-after-endor-find-out-in-star-wars-aftermath

Jen Heddle senior editor of Lucas Books wrote:
The second Death Star has been destroyed. Rumors are flying that the Emperor and his enforcer, Darth Vader, are dead. A new government is forming to replace the Empire. But the galaxy is a big place, and the fallout of this cataclysm will affect different worlds in different ways. Does everyone accept the fall of Imperial rule? Has everyone even heard the life-altering news? What rushes in to fill the vacuum the Empire has left? And who will try to stop them? Those are some of the themes we’ll be exploring in Aftermath, and as a lifelong Star Wars fan, just writing those words gives me chills. I can't wait for our first canon glimpse into the state of the galaxy after the Battle of Endor.

The Thrawn Trilogy was the launch pad for EU's post-RotJ period. Kick starting the new publishing's post-RotJ novels, this trilogy starting with Aftermath is the new canon's 'Thrawn Trilogy', except unlike the EU that there is a sequel film trilogy these have to maintain continuity with. It seems likely that only the first book in the new trilogy will be released before TFA, so I'm not quite as excited to read it before seeing the movie. But I probably will anyway, just to rule out some story directions for the film to go to without actually spoiling TFA.

One improvement does seem to be that this time, no matter how far in the future after RotJ the book takes place, they seem to have plotted out exactly what happens in the galaxy immediately after the Battle of Endor and taken things forward from there. I never cared for TTT being 5 years in the future, and then subsequent disjointed works only partially filling in the blanks later. I can only hope that with the hard continuity points of RotJ and TFA, and the current publishing model, there is a more logical plot progression this time, even if they slowly fill in the blanks over the years to come and not necessarily in chronological order.
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DarthOmega
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm I have an interesting idea as a forum exercise.

We wait a while and see the outcome of the new books and movies and once the dust starts to settle we look at what Disney has done and compare it to the original EU. We then take the pieces we like from the EU and meld them with the pieces we like from the Disney story group continuity and basically come up with our own recognized continuity for the Rancor Pit. It would obviously be an ever evolving continuity as we look at the continued output of Disney products, but I think it'll be doable once the initial work is done as we just add or tweak pieces that come out later on that we like. I realize we'd have to set up a way to vote and compromise and such, but the community here seems amiable enough to do something together like that.

Don't have to, just a thought and suggestion. I think I will definitely do it for myself when I run Star Wars games.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is going to be the eventual reality, even if there is no one timeline accepted throughout the entire Rancor Pit community. Already we have people who pick and choose from their sections of the EU, the OT, the NT, and what they imagined the OT was going to be about anyway.

Once some of the new timeline gets established, we'll have people play Star Wars buffet, and come away with different looking plates.

I've never been a hard-core canon junkie anyway, so I can't say that the idea bothers me much.
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthOmega wrote:
It appears that I'm not the only one that is cautiously accepting of the new canon. Don't get me wrong I LOVE the EU, and I am a bit disappointed that we won't get any closure to some of the story lines, but I can accept both as alternate universes to one another. I'm kind of interested in seeing where it all goes. I do hope they revive the Old Republic era at some point.


Cautiously accepting, yes. Happy with the handling, no. But hopeful that good can still come of it? Absolutely. As I've said elsewhere, Rebels is keeping my fandom alive; as long as that's going, I still have enough enthusiasm to overcome my inherent skepticism of the new canon. Smile

I agree about the disappointment over lack of closure; that's why I get so irked every time TCW gets an extra supplemental release or brings an element into Rebels- if WE don't get closure, why should THAT? Wink

And yeah- seeing a re-expansion of the non-film time periods would be interesting. I literally can't wrap my head around the concept that we're currently in a SWU where almost nothing has been established about the pre-TPM galaxy.


Whill wrote:
Both have Anakin promoted to Knighthood less than month after the traumatic death of his mother and his terrible pain felt by Yoda across the galaxy, and then even more ridiculously, immediately give Anakin, of all possible Jedi, an apprentice.


Every now and then, it warms my heart to remember the things that bring us together. Wink Maybe when Yoda abruptly declares "Failed, I have," in ROTS, he isn't giving up on defeating Palpatine after one fall, it's just suddenly hitting him how badly they mismanaged Anakin this whole time, making him too depressed to fight on?

Whill wrote:
And the new non-film canon, with its slate wiped clean except for TCW, is unnecessarily repeating the flaws of the EU. How does the new canon take advantage of removing the pre-TESB personal confrontations of Luke and Vader of Splinter of the Mind's Eye and Marvel Comics? By creating a new pre-TESB confrontation in the new Marvel Comics.


Yes! So glad I'm not the only one bugged by that. That was always my biggest fear about new canon (as I think I've mentioned before)- that the removal of things that have been established would just give them the opportunity to add in some of the really bad ideas, and make them permanent. At least with the EU, for whatever flaws it had, there were some places where you could say 'no, that would never happen, because it's already been established (before this or that idea came in vogue) that so-and-so had never heard of/done this or that...' Now, there's no such bulwark. (And I do wonder, if Episode VII does kill off one of the big three as rumors persist, how the 'The EU sucks because they killed Chewbacca; at least new canon restores all the characters to life' crowd will handle it).

That's the general thrust of the whole issue I have with 'Journey to the Force Awakens' seeming like another Tatooine Ghost or Survivor's Quest. I loved the Eu- as you all know... but I'm not blind to its flaws. And I'd think the one thing EU lovers and haters alike can agree on is "Whatever they do for new canon, the one thing there's no excuse NOT to do is learn from their mistakes."


Whill wrote:
I can consider the EU and the new non-film story group canon as equal alternates of each other. The new non-film canon is really no different than the EU - I just take it or leave it or tweak the continuity to suit my personal SWU.


And for personal canon, that works. But the scary thing for those of us who do care about what's official is that this new canon- every single comic, every single novel- is of equal canon level with the films themselves now. So, unlike the occasional piece of the EU that could be ignored if painful, this is etched in Star Wars stone every time. (at least until the next reboot... Rolling Eyes )


Whill wrote:
http://www.starwars.com/news/what-happened-after-endor-find-out-in-star-wars-aftermath

Jen Heddle senior editor of Lucas Books wrote:
The second Death Star has been destroyed. Rumors are flying that the Emperor and his enforcer, Darth Vader, are dead. A new government is forming to replace the Empire. But the galaxy is a big place, and the fallout of this cataclysm will affect different worlds in different ways. Does everyone accept the fall of Imperial rule? Has everyone even heard the life-altering news? What rushes in to fill the vacuum the Empire has left? And who will try to stop them? Those are some of the themes we’ll be exploring in Aftermath, and as a lifelong Star Wars fan, just writing those words gives me chills. I can't wait for our first canon glimpse into the state of the galaxy after the Battle of Endor.



Well, that does sound like a pretty great concept.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthOmega wrote:
Hmmm I have an interesting idea as a forum exercise.

We wait a while and see the outcome of the new books and movies and once the dust starts to settle we look at what Disney has done and compare it to the original EU. We then take the pieces we like from the EU and meld them with the pieces we like from the Disney story group continuity and basically come up with our own recognized continuity for the Rancor Pit. It would obviously be an ever evolving continuity as we look at the continued output of Disney products, but I think it'll be doable once the initial work is done as we just add or tweak pieces that come out later on that we like. I realize we'd have to set up a way to vote and compromise and such, but the community here seems amiable enough to do something together like that.

Don't have to, just a thought and suggestion. I think I will definitely do it for myself when I run Star Wars games.
cheshire wrote:
I think this is going to be the eventual reality, even if there is no one timeline accepted throughout the entire Rancor Pit community. Already we have people who pick and choose from their sections of the EU, the OT, the NT, and what they imagined the OT was going to be about anyway.

Once some of the new timeline gets established, we'll have people play Star Wars buffet, and come away with different looking plates.

The Star Wars franchise is a giant buffet. We shouldn't all have to reach a consensus of what goes on our plates.

I love democracy, but I think trying to have an official community timeline is doomed to go badly. Since there will undoubtedly be disagreement and compromise towards the purpose of consensus, it will just further enflame forum wars when people who strongly disagree try to convince others their view is should be the one voted for.

The Rancor Pit has a very diverse fan base. We can't even agree on the films, let alone the non-film media. There is such extreme hatred for the classic revisions and prequels that I feel I have to avoid typing out the dreaded "M-word" for fear of setting off a rant about the vile Führer Lucas herding the mystique of the Force into a gas chamber. Don't get me wrong. Diversity is wonderful thing. It's a strength of an open forum for exchange of ideas, but people have such strong emotions about their convictions that artificially requiring a group of people to reach an unnecessary consensus will make it a less peaceful place around here. If we can't all even come close to agreeing on the films, there is no way in hell we are ever going to agree on the entire franchise.

We really don't need consensus here. What's wrong with a forum just being here to ask questions, share ideas and discuss things? People can say, "This, this and this but not that are in my personal canon" and "That aspect of that novel doesn't work for me because..." and "How do you explain...?" all without any need to achieve a consensus as final result of the discussion.

But being an open forum, if some of you want to do it you sure could, and people who don't want to participate don't have to. However I wouldn't care for it being known as an official Rancor Pit consensus without all active members of the forum participating. And I just have to say I have a bad feeling about it and strongly advise against it.
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DarthOmega
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*shrug* - Like I said, just a thought, but you do bring up a lot of points that I wouldn't have foreseen, then again you've obviously been at this longer than I have Very Happy
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: Aftermath Reply with quote

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
I loved the Eu- as you all know... but I'm not blind to its flaws.

I can honestly say that I love a lot of the EU. I'm rereading some of my favorites EU works now, but I am going to work in some EU books I haven't yet read.

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
I agree about the disappointment over lack of closure

I actually do strongly sympathize with this. Despite my 'get over it' attitude for the fact that the EU ceased expansion (for the most part), in general I personally despise not getting resolution and closure in fiction I like. I am so pleased the cancelled Firefly TV series got its Serenity movie. For all the money you've spent on the Star Wars franchise, you do deserve closure! But it looks like you are going to have to find it in fan fiction or invent it yourself.

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
I get so irked every time TCW gets an extra supplemental release or brings an element into Rebels- if WE don't get closure, why should THAT?

Because TCW is canon, and the EU isn't. If you deserve closure, then so do TCW fans.

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
And I'd think the one thing EU lovers and haters alike can agree on is "Whatever they do for new canon, the one thing there's no excuse NOT to do is learn from their mistakes."

Yes, they have no excuse!

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
Whill wrote:
Both have Anakin promoted to Knighthood less than month after the traumatic death of his mother and his terrible pain felt by Yoda across the galaxy, and then even more ridiculously, immediately give Anakin, of all possible Jedi, an apprentice.

Every now and then, it warms my heart to remember the things that bring us together. Wink

Aww, so you do have a heart... I kid!

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
Cautiously accepting, yes. Happy with the handling, no. But hopeful that good can still come of it? Absolutely. As I've said elsewhere, Rebels is keeping my fandom alive; as long as that's going, I still have enough enthusiasm to overcome my inherent skepticism of the new canon. Smile

I'm not ga ga over Rebels like you, but it is an undeniable improvement over TCW, even though it sadly, unnecessarily repeats some of the same flaws (and now has Anakin's anti-film apprentice).

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
Whill wrote:
And the new non-film canon, with its slate wiped clean except for TCW, is unnecessarily repeating the flaws of the EU. How does the new canon take advantage of removing the pre-TESB personal confrontations of Luke and Vader of Splinter of the Mind's Eye and Marvel Comics? By creating a new pre-TESB confrontation in the new Marvel Comic

Yes! So glad I'm not the only one bugged by that. That was always my biggest fear about new canon (as I think I've mentioned before)- that the removal of things that have been established would just give them the opportunity to add in some of the really bad ideas, and make them permanent.

My cup is/was half full. I've felt that hitting the non-film canon reset button was/is an opportunity to replace some things in the EU that contradicted the films with things that don't, as opposed to feeling fear that what they replaced the EU with may be worse. But so far, with keeping TCW canon and having Luke personally confront Vader before TESB again, they're pretty much breaking even.

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
Whill wrote:
The new non-film canon is really no different than the EU - I just take it or leave it or tweak the continuity to suit my personal SWU.

And for personal canon, that works. But the scary thing for those of us who do care about what's official is that this new canon- every single comic, every single novel- is of equal canon level with the films themselves now. So, unlike the occasional piece of the EU that could be ignored if painful, this is etched in Star Wars stone every time.

No, no different. Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned... At least individual aspects of the new canon can still be equally ignored, where they aren't elsewhere referred to. (Please no mention of Anakin ever having an apprentice in live action films! Please no mention of Anakin ever having an apprentice in live action films!!)

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
At least with the EU, for whatever flaws it had, there were some places where you could say 'no, that would never happen, because it's already been established (before this or that idea came in vogue) that so-and-so had never heard of/done this or that...' Now, there's no such bulwark.

I view the new canon (including even the new films) the same as the EU. They have equal power over me for my SWU (zero), and I can still continue to pick and choose whatever I want from both of them at the buffet line. I assure you that I haven't flushed all of my personal SW canon that originated in the EU just because there's a new canon. There's really been no change to the multiversal structure of Star Wars as laid out by Lucas years ago. There's the canon universe, the EU, and each fan's universe.

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
I literally can't wrap my head around the concept that we're currently in a SWU where almost nothing has been established about the pre-TPM galaxy.

Unlike you younglings that were born after 1983, I remember a time in which not much had been established about the pre-ANH galaxy, and absolutely nothing was known about the post-ANH galaxy. Back then, Star Wars was a single movie called "Star Wars" that I had a single theatrical experience, the storybook adaptation, a cheesy horribly drawn comic book, and some action figures. When my brother, friends and I "played Star Wars" we were either playing with action figures or live action roleplaying. 8)

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
Jen Heddle senior editor of Lucas Books wrote:
The second Death Star has been destroyed. Rumors are flying that the Emperor and his enforcer, Darth Vader, are dead. A new government is forming to replace the Empire. But the galaxy is a big place, and the fallout of this cataclysm will affect different worlds in different ways. Does everyone accept the fall of Imperial rule? Has everyone even heard the life-altering news? What rushes in to fill the vacuum the Empire has left? And who will try to stop them? Those are some of the themes we’ll be exploring in Aftermath, and as a lifelong Star Wars fan, just writing those words gives me chills. I can't wait for our first canon glimpse into the state of the galaxy after the Battle of Endor.

Well, that does sound like a pretty great concept... And yeah- seeing a re-expansion of the non-film time periods would be interesting.

It is intriguing.

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
And I do wonder, if Episode VII does kill off one of the big three as rumors persist, how the 'The EU sucks because they killed Chewbacca; at least new canon restores all the characters to life' crowd will handle it

I don't know any of those all or nothing fans that chuck the entire EU just because of one thing they don't like about it, but I do believe you that they do exist. All kinds, Star Wars fandom takes. For the books, I could just decide to not read the NJO. For the new movies, there is no way I am not going to see them, no matter who may get killed.

And the reason I didn't like Chewbacca being killed off was not because of 'How dare they kill Chewbacca' or 'How dare they kill a film character'. I didn't like it because it was specifically Chewbacca. He such an original supporting character (the original Wookiee - all the others are just variations of him). If they had to kill someone in the books, it should have been someone else. Honestly, I'd doubt the soundness of the decision to kill Chewbacca in the new films too. But Luke or Leia? It depends on how they handled it and how it served the story. I can imagine possible stories about the next generation where Luke or Leia have served their purpose and are no longer needed after passing the torch.

Han? If they kill a classic character, I personally hope it is Han, my favorite Star Wars character. Like his overtly symbolic surname, Han's filmic character arc was the independent mercenary rogue who fell in love, resolved his death mark, and joined the heroic cause. Dramatically there's not much left for him to do, except to defy someone one last time and go sacrifice his life for loved ones and/or the cause. Go out with a bang sure, but go out. Han could be the Obi-Wan of the new trilogy. Han makes more sense to me than killing Chewbacca, but I guess I could see them going out together (especially if Peter Mayhew can't physically continue playing the role).

Ultimately, killing off a main character all depends on the story and how the character's death is portrayed in the film.

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
at least until the next reboot... Rolling Eyes )

Now, it is way to soon to bring that up. Please don't even go there! Shocked
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At first, I gotta admit, I was pretty upset. But lately I've been getting used to it. I kind of like knowing that Star Wars (at least as I know it) is "Finished".

It's a shame I can't explore more of the universe I grew up with (I'll be honest, I find the movies kinda boring, and I love the EU stuff waaaaay more) but at least I can continue it myself.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a general question for everyone, if you could pick one part of the old EU, one single character or feature to keep, what would it be?

For me, it's Thrawn. I've always been fascinated with him as both a being and a villain. I understand why he had to die at the end of the Thrawn Trilogy, but in many ways, Timothy Zahn set such a high bar for villains in the EU that everything else was pretty much a let-down.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
As a general question for everyone, if you could pick one part of the old EU, one single character or feature to keep, what would it be?

For me, it's Thrawn. I've always been fascinated with him as both a being and a villain. I understand why he had to die at the end of the Thrawn Trilogy, but in many ways, Timothy Zahn set such a high bar for villains in the EU that everything else was pretty much a let-down.


Thrawn for Best Antagonist for sure.
My favorite supporting character is still I9-YQ from the Michael Reaves books, but Thrawn is an imperial leader of a completely different type than those seen in the films.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a lot of people would disagree with me, but the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, even if it doesn't play out like it did in the NJO. I thought they were super unique and interesting.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thrawn was very interesting, but i would love to see something to do with Talon Karrde..
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

General Airen Cracken.
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A new canon version of Thrawn could be cool.
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
As a general question for everyone, if you could pick one part of the old EU, one single character or feature to keep, what would it be?

For me, it's Thrawn. I've always been fascinated with him as both a being and a villain. I understand why he had to die at the end of the Thrawn Trilogy, but in many ways, Timothy Zahn set such a high bar for villains in the EU that everything else was pretty much a let-down.


Kyle Katarn. (Though if he can't come with Jan Ors, there's not so much of a point). That, or Jedi families. It's a toss-up.
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