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Interstellar Communications
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I would think Imperial Holonet access could also be on a need-to-have basis for lower ranks. Any time a unit has to receive orders from or communicate outside of the system they are currently in, which could be a captain of a small ship is some cases depending on the mission, they would need some kind of FTL communication.

It's not EU, but in Rebels local bars can receive news interstellar broadcasts, but presumably it is one-way communication (receive only).

Season 2, episode 1 shows the Rebels recieving a holonet transmission FROM that very same bartender. Same episode later shows a real time audio transmission to Lando, somewhere off world. The new cannon seems more interested in moving a given episode's story along, than considering the galaxy wide effects of the latest plot device.
Personally I would limit Holonet access to the Brigade level in an active theater, & the corps level everywhere else.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I would think Imperial Holonet access could also be on a need-to-have basis for lower ranks. Any time a unit has to receive orders from or communicate outside of the system they are currently in, which could be a captain of a small ship is some cases depending on the mission, they would need some kind of FTL communication.

There is EU precedent for that. In the Far Orbit Project, the main antagonist has a HoloNet link aboard a Nebulon B.

Quote:
It's not EU, but in Rebels local bars can receive news interstellar broadcasts, but presumably it is one-way communication (receive only).

We discussed the idea of having holo-format news reels, pre-recorded and physically shipped out to the rest of the galaxy, where they could be disseminated through more normal means.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cynanbloodbane wrote:
Season 2, episode 1 shows the Rebels recieving a holonet transmission FROM that very same bartender. Same episode later shows a real time audio transmission to Lando, somewhere off world. The new cannon seems more interested in moving a given episode's story along, than considering the galaxy wide effects of the latest plot device.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Of course even in the EU, there was illegal access to the restricted holonet.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At some earlier point in this topic, we established the existence of Holonets-in-miniature, using subspace relays to enable real time communication within a Sector or small region. Just because a holographic communication is used does not mean it was automatically transmitted via the Holonet.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cynanbloodbane wrote:
The new cannon seems more interested in moving a given episode's story along, than considering the galaxy wide effects of the latest plot device.
Whill wrote:
Of course even in the EU, there was illegal access to the restricted holonet.
crmcneill wrote:
At some earlier point in this topic, we established the existence of Holonets-in-miniature, using subspace relays to enable real time communication within a Sector or small region. Just because a holographic communication is used does not mean it was automatically transmitted via the Holonet.

I agree that there very likely could be local inter(stellar)nets, and Lando may have been somewhere in the same sector. However, I sincerely doubt that's what Rebels had in mind. I strongly suspect that cynanbloodbane is right and the new story canon doesn't have any sort of reverence for a statement WEG made decades ago about the holonet being restricted by the Empire.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True. Still, if we want to continue using the EU in combination with what we see in Rebels, its as good an explanation as any, and far better than some others.
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tetsuoh
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a firm believer that the holo was intact during imperial times but was under imperial control and sanctions - the information flow anyway.

WHY?

Because what better propaganda device than television?

Palpatine's inaugural speech would have been transmitted - live - to the far corners of the galaxy for all to see.

They could have entire frequencies set to replay anti rebel sentiment - and would have supple displays of their control in the programming throughout the networks.

And what better way to fight back than use it agaisnt them.

Hack in and hijack the signal for a V type moment.

I'm sure more than a few holo celebrities were "removed from the air" for seditious actions such as adding single frame transmissions of rebel info or anti imperial ideology of disdain toward a certain imperial activity.

Also is the notion that the Bureau of HoloNet Communications is similar in scope to the Bureau of Ships and Services but no where near as untouchable.

More HoloNet infor for any curious - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/HoloNet
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tetsuoh wrote:
I am a firm believer that the holo was intact during imperial times but was under imperial control and sanctions - the information flow anyway.

WHY?

Because what better propaganda device than television?

Palpatine's inaugural speech would have been transmitted - live - to the far corners of the galaxy for all to see.

They could have entire frequencies set to replay anti rebel sentiment - and would have supple displays of their control in the programming throughout the networks.

And what better way to fight back than use it agaisnt them.

Hack in and hijack the signal for a V type moment.

I'm sure more than a few holo celebrities were "removed from the air" for seditious actions such as adding single frame transmissions of rebel info or anti imperial ideology of disdain toward a certain imperial activity.

Also is the notion that the Bureau of HoloNet Communications is similar in scope to the Bureau of Ships and Services but no where near as untouchable.

More HoloNet infor for any curious - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/HoloNet

I completely agree. Was anyone saying the holonet completely went away during the Empire? If so I missed it.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Was anyone saying the holonet completely went away during the Empire? If so I missed it.

If they were, it wasn't on this topic. The general consensus we reached here was that there were multiple levels of the Holonet, with the galaxy wide, real time full audio/holo at the high end, and progressively lower "download speeds as the levels decreased. The idea was that, when WEG said that the Empire " shut down" the Holonet, what they actually did was restrict the high-end Holonet to the use of high level Imperial military and civil government.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tetsuoh wrote:
More HoloNet infor for any curious - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/HoloNet
Quote:
When Emperor Palpatine assumed power, large portions of the HoloNet were shut down to prevent news of the Empire's atrocities from spreading quickly. During the time of the Empire, the HoloNet was strictly controlled, used mostly for Imperial Military communications.

crmcneill wrote:
The general consensus we reached here was that there were multiple levels of the Holonet, with the galaxy wide, real time full audio/holo at the high end, and progressively lower "download speeds as the levels decreased. The idea was that, when WEG said that the Empire " shut down" the Holonet, what they actually did was restrict the high-end Holonet to the use of high level Imperial military and civil government.

That's reasonable.
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The plot of Tarkin deals with why the Tarkin Doctrine was implemented & specifically why the Holonet was even further restricted, starting 5 years after The Clone Wars ended.
Point: Not all of the new cannon ignores the previously established rules of the holonet. In this case, because The Tarkin Doctrine was being re-established as cannon.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
That's reasonable.

What we originally came up with two basic grades or Holonet. The first was the real-time comm version, while the second was more of data transfer. It was still very expensive (pretty much restricted to the wealthy, businesses and local governments), and was limited to documents or files, such as pre-recorded holo-messages, like what Princess Leia encoded into Artoo in ANH. Basically, you could send a holo-message of yourself speaking, but you would have to wait hours or days to get a response.

This would fit in well with what was described above, as the Empire could use the slow-speed Holonet to disseminate propaganda and monitor what people were saying to each other via holo-message (much easier to monitor a pre-recorded message than a real-time conversation).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, the inclusion of subspace in the SWU has always bothered me. For one thing, it's a Trek invention; for another, there is no real basis for it in the films. However, like it or not, it has an established presence in the EU. Since the consensus on this topic was to keep subspace as opposed to folding it into hypercomms, I put some thought into coming up with a plausible techno-babble solution for what subspace is, and how it functions.
    Subspace is something of a misnomer. For the uneducated, subspace is assumed to be the opposite of hyperspace, a dimension "below" normal space, while hyperspace is "above". In actuality, Subspace is a contraction of Hyperwave Spatial Subduction Resonance Transceiver.

    Subspace Comms function on the same physics as those found in Hyperwave Signal Interceptors, common sensors that detect ships jumping into or out of hyperspace. What an HSI detects is the shockwave of a ship passing through the upper dimensional boundary that separates real space from " higher" dimensions. A subspace communication system uses a hyperwave pulse projector to induce resonations in that same dimensional boundary. While the resonations lack sufficient strength to penetrate into hyperspace itself, the dimensional boundary subducts them back "down" and outward in all directions away from the origin point. These pulses ripple outward at several hundred times the speed of light, and the repetition rate allows for extremely high bandwidth data transmissions.

    While allowing FTL communication at a local level, subspace comms quickly run into a range barrier, as an arithmetic increase in range requires an exponential increase in power. As a result, even the largest, most powerful capital ships have maximum subspace communication ranges of three or four hundred light years. However, the technology is simple enough that even small starfighter are regularly equipped with subspace communication systems.

I poached some of the physics for this from the gravitics sensors and FTL comms used extensively in the Honor Harrington series. Gravitics aren't nearly as prominent in the SWU as in the Honor verse, but I think it works well as a techno-babble explanation.

Thoughts?
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:39 am; edited 3 times in total
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Mikael Hasselstein
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it.

(I think.)
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikael Hasselstein wrote:
I like it.

(I think.)

You think?
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