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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1853
Location: Norway
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 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Argentsaber wrote: | | Mamatried wrote: | I don't see how using command makes a guy who is almost untrained in gunnery become trained, just because some guy shouts orders....it makes Zero sense.
I can however see how good leadership, which command in essence is reducing difficulties, and by this enhancing performance, but I can not see how
4D become 6D because someone gave an order, if that is the case that is the only needed skill...... |
How many Sci Fi shows have the line "Fire on my command" though.. sometimes timing and coordination can make all the difference. Tall ships used three main strategies with their broadsides.. either a sort of fire as fast as you can get it reloaded sort of thing, a rolling fire where each cannon tried to target the same spot as they passed by, or one single massive volley at a time. Two of those three would require command rolls, and all of them adapt well to starwars. |
I would rather have this being due to timing, reduce any penalties, or difficulties on either their attack or defense or action.
The commander gives the fire order just as the other ship is beginning his turn to port, or just as the other ship does something like change the focus of the shields he orders an attack from the flank.
The leader's timing and commands, help making the attacks easier, not increasing the skill level of the attackers.
While this is not about ships the principal still applies.
Lets take a squad of stormtroopers, they co-ordinate fire for efficiency and if making multiple attacks they get a MAP penalty.
A command roll here would imo bring down this MAP penalty to =0D
One example could be that a heroic command roll allows MAP penalty to be applied on attack number 3
Attack # 1 normal,
Attack #2 Normal *
Attack # 3 -1D MAP
* would normally get a -1D MAP Penalty but the command roll negates this, and the -1D MAP Penalty begins now on attack number 3. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: | I don't see how using command makes a guy who is almost untrained in gunnery become trained, just because some guy shouts orders....it makes Zero sense.
I can however see how good leadership, which command in essence is reducing difficulties, and by this enhancing performance, but I can not see how
4D become 6D because someone gave an order, if that is the case that is the only needed skill...... |
The presumption is that the Crew Skill rating is an aggregate representing the skill level of the entire crew insofar as the entire crew's ability to perform certain tasks.
As far as throwing a PC with a high Mechanical Attribute into the gunner's seat of a turbolaser, it's a lot more than just yelling "Open Fire!" in the proper tone of voice. Command takes the form of instruction in fine-tuning the shot, such as being instructed to lead a target by a specific angle, or target a specific location on the target, or holding fire until a specific moment when the target's defenses may be temporarily weakened.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1853
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Mamatried wrote: | I don't see how using command makes a guy who is almost untrained in gunnery become trained, just because some guy shouts orders....it makes Zero sense.
I can however see how good leadership, which command in essence is reducing difficulties, and by this enhancing performance, but I can not see how
4D become 6D because someone gave an order, if that is the case that is the only needed skill...... |
The presumption is that the Crew Skill rating is an aggregate representing the skill level of the entire crew insofar as the entire crew's ability to perform certain tasks.
As far as throwing a PC with a high Mechanical Attribute into the gunner's seat of a turbolaser, it's a lot more than just yelling "Open Fire!" in the proper tone of voice. Command takes the form of instruction in fine-tuning the shot, such as being instructed to lead a target by a specific angle, or target a specific location on the target, or holding fire until a specific moment when the target's defenses may be temporarily weakened. |
Instruction and fine tuning???? this takes time, a lot of time, hence I feel it is better for command to not add a single pip or D to anything whatsoever, but rather reduce difficulties and reduce MAP .
The Tie Fighter Pilot is at a default 4D in his capital ship. Some guy an officer without much to say in piloting whatsoever shouts in the pilot's ear, and now the pilot is a trained capital ship ace, looping around and dogfighting?
Or is he still the same default/untrained pilot that under some constant instuction manages to do what would be too difficult normally? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Did you read the Wraith Squadron books? Notice how in the battle scenes, Piggy acted as a flight controller for his fellow pilots, giving them precise instructions as to when to fire, maneuver, etc. Those simple commands based on proper timing increased their effectiveness in combat. Put a character with 4D Mech and no dice in Starfighter behind the controls of an X-Wing, with a good flight controller who has him on sensors giving him proper instructions as to precisely when to act, and he will be more effective.
Think of it as an officer with a view of the big picture being able to relay critical instructions to a subordinate who is focused on a specific task in order to increase the overall efficiency of that subordinate as it fits into a cohesive whole that is a unit or crew.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | Did you read the Wraith Squadron books? Notice how in the battle scenes, Piggy acted as a flight controller for his fellow pilots, giving them precise instructions as to when to fire, maneuver, etc. Those simple commands based on proper timing increased their effectiveness in combat. Put a character with 4D Mech and no dice in Starfighter behind the controls of an X-Wing, with a good flight controller who has him on sensors giving him proper instructions as to precisely when to act, and he will be more effective.
Think of it as an officer with a view of the big picture being able to relay critical instructions to a subordinate who is focused on a specific task in order to increase the overall efficiency of that subordinate as it fits into a cohesive whole that is a unit or crew. |
Is this really the pilot's SKILL in piloting that is boosted, or does the flight controller make things easier for the pilot aka lowering difficulties?
I can see how the pilot learns to pilot, but I do see how things normally very difficult or impossible is now doable due to the constant advice from the controller.....
After all if you are a passenger in a plane and you have to land it, ans the flight controller and another pilot talks you through it, it only reduces the difficulty of getting the plane down, it does make you a trained pilot.
The experience could maybe give you a +1 pip to the skill after, but that is learning. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I think you’re overthinking it.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Mamatried
Commodore
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I think you’re overthinking it. |
Perhaps.
I generally use command to reduce penalties, or difficulties to the opponent, rather directly affecting the troops skill dice.
I also use this with tactics, using tactics to ( in some cases) add difficulties to the opponents.
Command vs Tactics
Tactics Vs Command
I often use them with some " Head made on the fly" modifiers, like if you are unfamiliar with the tactics then your difficulty to counter it is higher, and the effective bonus reduced.
etc etc.
I use tactics in a very similar way and the skills most often oppose eachother |
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Argentsaber
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 07 Oct 2017
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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I would argue that the game already increases die pool in many situations where the task is easier.. isn't that what die codes like maneuverability and fire control imply? It's much easier to maneuver a sports bike through a maze than a school bus (scale), but it's also much easier to maneuver a Ferarri than a sedan of roughly the same weight (maneuverability).
Additionally, the battery fire option for capital ships seems to imply that the cooperative bonus applied works much the same way, doesn't it?
In the tabletop RPG, lower difficulty is roughly equivalent to increased die pool, no?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:14 am Post subject: |
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A thought on this...
I've gotten more interest in certain of my house rules of late, and have had to write up some conversions on the fly. On my latest stat write-up - the Nebulon A-Class Patrol Frigate - I included a section at the bottom of the stat with notes for using two of the three House Rules that have gotten the most interest: Command Difficulty and Battery Dice. I'm working on my updated stats for the Nebulon A at the moment, and once I finish that, I'm going to go through my Stat Index and add a House Rule Note to the bottom of all of them, which will include Command Difficulty (for Capital Ships), Endurance Dice and Battery Dice. I may also include my idea for Shield Control dice, but I haven't quite decided on that yet.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10402
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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I've begun the project mentioned above. I've started at the top of the Capital Ship Index and am working my way down. The conversion is somewhat time-consuming, but the pace will pick up since I'm doing the most complicated stats first. This will eventually expand to cover every ship and vehicle stat in my Index, but if you have any ships you'd like to see done first, let me know and I'll bump them up in the queue.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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I have now updated all of the Capital Ship, Bulk Transport and Space Station stats in my Stat Index to include a Command Difficulty Modifier, Shield Control Dice, and Battery Dice for all weapon systems.
Next, I'll be working on all of the smaller craft. Obviously, most of them aren't going to have all of the above notations, but I will insert them as is appropriate.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:48 am Post subject: |
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This isn't hugely important to me, but one of the more useless stats on most capital ships is Cargo Capacity. The most use I ever get out of it is it gives me something to take away when I'm doing a variant stat of some kind. An idea that occurred to me was to give all capital ships an effectively unlimited cargo tonnage and replace the listed stat with cargo volume. For instance, rather than having a cargo capacity of 36,000 metric tons, an ISD would have 18,000 cubic meters.
Just a thought...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10402
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | This isn't hugely important to me, but one of the more useless stats on most capital ships is Cargo Capacity. The most use I ever get out of it is it gives me something to take away when I'm doing a variant stat of some kind. An idea that occurred to me was to give all capital ships an effectively unlimited cargo tonnage and replace the listed stat with cargo volume. For instance, rather than having a cargo capacity of 36,000 metric tons, an ISD would have 18,000 cubic meters.
Just a thought... |
Sure, it's rare that a capital ship would be used to haul cargo at anywhere close to "capacity", but it is a possibility and cargoes are usually measured in tons. I never read that stat as a literal hard weight limit for capital ships. Just a simplification with averages to make the game more readily playable. Without it, then you are doing more arithmetic to calculate how much volume a cargo takes up. Another option to removing the stat is to leave it and add a volume for when that is important (maybe just after a slash in the same field).
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Sure, it's rare that a capital ship would be used to haul cargo at anywhere close to "capacity", but it is a possibility and cargoes are usually measured in tons. I never read that stat as a literal hard weight limit for capital ships. Just a simplification with averages to make the game more readily playable. Without it, then you are doing more arithmetic to calculate how much volume a cargo takes up. Another option to removing the stat is to leave it and add a volume for when that is important (maybe just after a slash in the same field). |
The thing is, volume of usable cargo space arguably counts for more than tonnage. As a truck driver, I'm only concerned with weight because there are hard legal limits on how much my truck can weigh and how that weight is distributed. The physical limitations on weight of cargo is entirely subordinate to the mass of the cargo itself and how much I can fit into the space allotted for it. Sure, there are stability concerns at the upper end (which is what I was trying to represent with my cargo and starship performance thread), but that's far less of a concern for starships than it is for road vehicles or ocean-going vessels.
Since weight varies wildly by cargo, it would actually simplify things to use something like the chart from Tramp Freighters to tell you how much a given volume of cargo weighs, which in turn tells you how much the performance of the ship is degraded.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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