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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OuttaWindu wrote:
A short and comparison for G+ alternatives when it finally shuts down. My personal opinion is to mainly migrate to the two most popular/active ones, but also to come here for that sweet longievety that a normal forum fromat provides over the fluctuations and fickleness of social media platforms.

+

Thanks for sharing this. What does it mean, "hyperlinks can't be shortened"?
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OuttaWindu
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which of these two are more readable:

-----------------------------------1------------------------------------------
If I want to link the Ghtroc freighter thread, or the author, while also wanting to maintain a readable text, it gets hard. Urls aren't alwasy short, so a short name is sometimes nice.

Vatical News article (translated)

----------------------------------2------------------------------------

If I want to https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7357
link the Ghtroc freighter thread, or https://rancorpit.com/forums/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=254 the author , while also wanting to show https://goo.gl/maps/gw3ADd5aim12 a readable text
, it gets hard. Urls aren't alwasy short, so a short name is sometimes nice.

https://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/la/apost_constitutions/documents/papa-francesco_costituzione-ap_20140709_izcalliensis.html - Vatical News article (translated)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Usually it's not a problem, and many places like forums and reddit support this, but FB, G+, & MeWe don't, so sharing informative and readable posts isn't as easy. I hope this example illustrated my point. There might exist a proper term for this thing, but I'm not aware of it.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still not sure I understand. The article you shared puts "hyperlinks can't be shortened" under the cons of the Rancor Pit. Hyperlinks on the Rancor Pit can be shortened and they are easily readable, as in your #1 above. In my prior post above that, the "+" is a hyperlink. It is shortened to a single character. How could it be shorter?
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OuttaWindu
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I'm still not sure I understand. The article you shared puts "hyperlinks can't be shortened" under the cons of the Rancor Pit. Hyperlinks on the Rancor Pit can be shortened and they are easily readable, as in your #1 above. In my prior post above that, the "+" is a hyperlink. It is shortened to a single character. How could it be shorter?


Oh I see now, I made a mistake with listing things, that wasn't true for Rancor Pit. You saw how I didn't mention Rancor Pit in my above example, and also was able to illustrate this point here? Yeah, I'll remove that line, applies to the FB &MeWe, not Rancor Pit. Sorry about that.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I completely about images not being easy here. Of course I disagree with your conclusion as for the overall best option, but I do not hold that against you.

I think I know what you mean about post formatting. I think for some of them you can highlight text and press a button to apply formatting like here, but on others you probably see the formatting in the post window instead of code brackets, and you also may be able to paste text from elsewhere and it retain the original formatting. Right?
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OuttaWindu
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

I think I know what you mean about post formatting. I think for some of them you can highlight text and press a button to apply formatting like here, but on others you probably see the formatting in the post window instead of code brackets, and you also may be able to paste text from elsewhere and it retain the original formatting. Right?


Yeah that's what I meant. It seems like forums & forum-like places like RancorPit & Reddit supports this where as more "modern" platforms(FB, G+,MeWe) doesn't seem to be as keen to support this, but social medias have different focus I guess.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OuttaWindu wrote:
Whill wrote:
I think I know what you mean about post formatting. I think for some of them you can highlight text and press a button to apply formatting like here, but on others you probably see the formatting in the post window instead of code brackets, and you also may be able to paste text from elsewhere and it retain the original formatting. Right?

Yeah that's what I meant. It seems like forums & forum-like places like RancorPit & Reddit supports this where as more "modern" platforms(FB, G+,MeWe) doesn't seem to be as keen to support this, but social medias have different focus I guess.

I'm confused by "supports this". I was responding to you saying, "Post formatting is bit chunky" about the Pit. That's listed as a con, so what is it that Rancor Pit (and Reddit) "supports" about post formatting and what makes it a con?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I was responding to you saying, "Post formatting is bit chunky" about the Pit. That's listed as a con, so what is it that Rancor Pit (and Reddit) "supports" about post formatting and what makes it a con?

You originally commented on my "hyperlinks can't he shortened", which I corrected. This is the first time you adress my "Post formatting is bit chunky" criticism.

Simply put, I place RancorPit between Reddit and the rest in what it comes to post-formatting, but my needlesly minimalistic summary doesn't clearly distinct this. Rankingwise, I'd place them like this:
1. Sites like Reddit, Roll20 Forums & D6Online have good text editors for formatting posts.
2. Rancor Pit thankfully also have one, but it's chunky, and bit older.I did touch on this subject earlier
3. Sites like FB, G+ and MeWe have zero or close to zero ways to do these things.

The post isn't really well made, and you're the first one to actually point out the vagueness, and I thank you for that. I probably should rewrite each paragraph as a short text rather than splitting them in that fashion, as it doesn't show that I aprociate Rancor Pit and Reddit over the rest on this particular matter.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I think I know what you mean about post formatting. I think for some of them you can highlight text and press a button to apply formatting like here, but on others you probably see the formatting in the post window instead of code brackets, and you also may be able to paste text from elsewhere and it retain the original formatting. Right?


OuttaWindu wrote:
Whill wrote:
I was responding to you saying, "Post formatting is bit chunky" about the Pit. That's listed as a con, so what is it that Rancor Pit (and Reddit) "supports" about post formatting and what makes it a con?

You originally commented on my "hyperlinks can't he shortened", which I corrected. This is the first time you adress my "Post formatting is bit chunky" criticism.

Simply put, I place RancorPit between Reddit and the rest in what it comes to post-formatting, but my needlesly minimalistic summary doesn't clearly distinct this. Rankingwise, I'd place them like this:
1. Sites like Reddit, Roll20 Forums & D6Online have good text editors for formatting posts.
2. Rancor Pit thankfully also have one, but it's chunky, and bit older.I did touch on this subject earlier like FB, G+ and MeWe have zero or close to zero ways to do these things.

The post isn't really well made, and you're the first one to actually point out the vagueness, and I thank you for that. I probably should rewrite each paragraph as a short text rather than splitting them in that fashion, as it doesn't show that I aprociate Rancor Pit and Reddit over the rest on this particular matter.

I appreciate the clarification here, but text from me you quoted in your last post was not the first time I addressed your "Post formatting is bit chunky" bullet point on the OP's reddit post. After the hyperlink discussion, I immediately moved on to the post formatting point. But I guess I could have added a quote from your reddit post for additional clarification as to what I was referring to when I said, "I think I know what you mean about post formatting..." Sorry.
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OuttaWindu
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
After the hyperlink discussion, I immediately moved on to the post formatting point. But I guess I could have added a quote from your reddit post for additional clarification as to what I was referring to when I said, "I think I know what you mean about post formatting..." Sorry.


Yes, I see that now in hindsight, but it first just appeared as a general talking point to me.

Well, that aside, could you share your view on some points I haven't brought up, or under/overstated? I'd assume you have at least a few differing opinions regarding the platforms for you to reach another conclusion.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OuttaWindu wrote:
Yes, I see that now in hindsight, but it first just appeared as a general talking point to me.
OuttaWindu wrote:
Simply put, I place RancorPit between Reddit and the rest in what it comes to post-formatting, but my needlesly minimalistic summary doesn't clearly distinct this. Rankingwise, I'd place them like this:
1. Sites like Reddit, Roll20 Forums & D6Online have good text editors for formatting posts.
2. Rancor Pit thankfully also have one, but it's chunky, and bit older.I did touch on this subject earlier
3. Sites like FB, G+ and MeWe have zero or close to zero ways to do these things.

The post isn't really well made, and you're the first one to actually point out the vagueness, and I thank you for that. I probably should rewrite each paragraph as a short text rather than splitting them in that fashion, as it doesn't show that I aprociate Rancor Pit and Reddit over the rest on this particular matter.

I don't have much experience with Reddit (or Roll20 Forums) but if Reddit is like D6 Online then yes post formatting is better than here. And I wouldn't really hold your inability to completely use third party editors against The Rancor Pit without specifying that is part of what you judge as "chunky."

And I feel it is an important distinction that Facebook unfortunately has practically zero post formatting. As someone with a lot of experience with Facebook over the years, I just can't see how anyone that at all appreciates what do here could possibly see Facebook as better. The unorganized single timeline view of threads and difficulty of finding things is a deal-breaker for 'best Star Wars D6 community option', IMHO. But G+ is just as if not more difficult in this way, so if you are only trying to help G+ community members decide where to go next, it is undeniably true that Facebook is a lot more like G+ than The Rancor Pit is. But I really don't get how anyone could like G+ better than the Rancor Pit in the first place.

OuttaWindu wrote:
Well, that aside, could you share your view on some points I haven't brought up, or under/overstated? I'd assume you have at least a few differing opinions regarding the platforms for you to reach another conclusion.

Based on my experience with Star Wars fans on the web, I feel a vital missing Pro for the Rancor Pit is the moderation and maintenance of a generally positive atmosphere. The Pit has well-developed Forum Posting Guidelines that make expectations clear and self-moderation easy. I won't say which one, but one of the other options on your list allows people to get excessively hateful such as seriously judging an entertainment company's "evil" to be equal to murder and slavery in their unrepentant bash-fests. When such person started harassing someone by PM with their vitriol, they should have been banned from the community. But no, @sshole fans are allowed to ruin threads and bring everyone down with their hatred on many websites. Not here. Another Star Wars RPG site I visited had a moderator who posted hatred himself and looked the other way for users violating decorum if they also bashed films, while bringing the hammer down on those posting supportive views. It was totally bass-ackwards. This lack of common decency in Star Wars fan communities is a major con for most all of them out there.

And another pro for the Rancor Pit is this is the only major Star Wars D6 RPG website completely dedicated to the Star Wars RPG. The others on your Reddit post are groups or subforums within larger sites. We have a distinct focus here. The others could have policy or technical changes largely or completely driven by non-Star-Wars factors that impact those Star Wars communities, where Rancor Pit website is owned and operated by one of the fellow Star Wars D6 fans in the community for the community.

As far as a conclusion, I feel that the classic forum format alone makes the Rancor Pit the overall best option for all Star Wars D6 fans. Sure the forum software is old, but it will be upgraded eventually (including post editing and image handling improvements), so people not here yet should just start here now. This is already the best, and it will only get better. Sure you can say I'm biased, but I submit to you that the reason I assumed ownership of this site was because it was the best option out there and I didn't want to see it disappear from the web, leaving only inferior options. And I am coming from a complete lack of ulterior motives. This site has no revenue. It is a personal expense and a time consumer for me, but I honestly view it as a Star Wars D6 community service. The Rancor Pit really is the premier website devoted to the Star Wars D6 game, in all the world.
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OuttaWindu
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

And I feel it is an important distinction that Facebook unfortunately has practically zero post formatting. As someone with a lot of experience with Facebook over the years, I just can't see how anyone that at all appreciates what do here could possibly see Facebook as better. The unorganized single timeline view of threads and difficulty of finding things is a deal-breaker for 'best Star Wars D6 community option', IMHO. But G+ is just as if not more difficult in this way, so if you are only trying to help G+ community members decide where to go next, it is undeniably true that Facebook is a lot more like G+ than The Rancor Pit is. But I really don't get how anyone could like G+ better than the Rancor Pit in the first place.


I never liked G+, and never used it before joining the SWD6 community as it occasionally had things the other platforms didn't include. I'm also under no illusion that I would sway many people, hence why I advocated primarily for FB & Reddit for their general popularity, Reddit more for it's features.

Whill wrote:

Based on my experience with Star Wars fans on the web, I feel a vital missing Pro for the Rancor Pit is the moderation and maintenance of a generally positive atmosphere. The Pit has well-developed Forum Posting Guidelines that make expectations clear and self-moderation easy. I won't say which one, but one of the other options on your list allows people to get excessively hateful such as seriously judging an entertainment company's "evil" to be equal to murder and slavery in their unrepentant bash-fests. When such person started harassing someone by PM with their vitriol, they should have been banned from the community. But no, @sshole fans are allowed to ruin threads and bring everyone down with their hatred on many websites. Not here. Another Star Wars RPG site I visited had a moderator who posted hatred himself and looked the other way for users violating decorum if they also bashed films, while bringing the hammer down on those posting supportive views. It was totally bass-ackwards. This lack of common decency in Star Wars fan communities is a major con for most all of them out there.


Yes, I briefly touched on the subject but didn't feel that any of the communities where better or worse moderated to the point I had further opinions, and the FB group have only once that I've seen needed to take down posts for this reason. The subreddit isn't as active so heavier guidlines haven't been used, and the there is the added bonus that people can go to more appropriate subreddits to discuss if they can't stay on topic.

Whill wrote:

And another pro for the Rancor Pit is this is the only major Star Wars D6 RPG website completely dedicated to the Star Wars RPG. The others on your Reddit post are groups or subforums within larger sites. We have a distinct focus here. The others could have policy or technical changes largely or completely driven by non-Star-Wars factors that impact those Star Wars communities, where Rancor Pit website is owned and operated by one of the fellow Star Wars D6 fans in the community for the community.


This is a good point, a dedicated forum does have it's benefits, but so does having closer proximity to related communities. On Reddit, someone on /r/rpg can talk about SWD6 and the good old days, and find his way to the subreddit easily, lowering the bar to enter a community. But as you say, having an independent platform/website does have a certain stability compared to the possible fluctuations of larger sites you're only a small segment of. Which I apparently did not bring up, but imagined I had. I'll include that point when I update it next time.

Whill wrote:

As far as a conclusion, I feel that the classic forum format alone makes the Rancor Pit the overall best option for all Star Wars D6 fans. Sure the forum software is old, but it will be upgraded eventually (including post editing and image handling improvements), so people not here yet should just start here now. This is already the best, and it will only get better. Sure you can say I'm biased, but I submit to you that the reason I assumed ownership of this site was because it was the best option out there and I didn't want to see it disappear from the web, leaving only inferior options. And I am coming from a complete lack of ulterior motives. This site has no revenue. It is a personal expense and a time consumer for me, but I honestly view it as a Star Wars D6 community service. The Rancor Pit really is the premier website devoted to the Star Wars D6 game, in all the world.


I realized I've considered and at least touched most of the points you mentioned, but had overall a different emphasis on what I saw as important for the average user, and didn't really have the headspace to futher compare userdata/company aspects of each, as I'd really would need to research on the subject before having the confidence to make general judgement or inference on their practices. Your arguments have changed my mind somewhat on this topic, and I thank you for your well written replies.

Right now I'd hold FB, RancorPit & Reddit at equal footing, but for different reasons.

FB only because it's now the most active community(even if worst platform)
Reddit for it's general popularity, proximity to related communities & customization possibilities on all fronts(And yes partially personal bias)
Rancor Pit for it's independence from larger entities, it's long history, and the forum structure.

And I'll update the reddit post at some point, but really, the few that was going to read it probably have already, so it doesn't change things much.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My last post was mainly because you asked. I appreciate your replies! Just like Google+ is being eliminated, any of the others could be too. Facebook may not be going anywhere, but maybe they will do away with certain kinds of groups and pages. Sure there aren't any guarantees about the future, but I took over the Pit specifically because it faced extinction. If the other sites want to do away with a Star Wars D6 group, there is nothing anyone can do about it. The Rancor Pit Forums have been here since 2003 and they're still independent. I feel that means something special.

I had created an account for Reddit at some point, and I'll have to check into it on a deeper level sometime. Thanks again.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
My last post was mainly because you asked. I appreciate your replies! Just like Google+ is being eliminated, any of the others could be too. Facebook may not be going anywhere, but maybe they will do away with certain kinds of groups and pages. Sure there aren't any guarantees about the future, but I took over the Pit specifically because it faced extinction. If the other sites want to do away with a Star Wars D6 group, there is nothing anyone can do about it. The Rancor Pit Forums have been here since 2003 and they're still independent. I feel that means something special.


Yes, and I've realize this point better now after our discussion. And after all, the shutting down of G+ in under a year after it being announced is already a generous warning we might not get when the next place is shut down.


I've now updated the SWD6 communities summary somewhat.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OuttaWindu wrote:
And after all, the shutting down of G+ in under a year after it being announced is already a generous warning we might not get when the next place is shut down.

I've now updated the SWD6 communities summary somewhat.

Thanks. I posted this comment on your Reddit post:

RancorPit wrote:
I like this rundown. As a bit of clarification for the Rancor Pit, most image URLs can be posted as images by simply highlighting the text and pressing the image tag button. However, the current forum software does not allow uploading images from your computer directly to the Pit, or and does not resize images. This will likely be improved with a forum upgrade sometime in the future.

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