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Cloning and the force
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:40 pm    Post subject: Cloning and the force Reply with quote

It has always been an issue with cloning force senitives successfully.
However having seen the sequals and following the reveal about Rey's parents, I think maybe the old fart, may have solved the issue with force clonings.

Now wwe do not in any way know if Rey's father, who we do know was a clone of Palpatine, was force sensitive.
But if we heed the words of Yoda, and other Jedi we know that the force is in all living things, and perhaps the solutuon to cloning a "jedi" or a force user is to make a clone that perhaps is not force sensitive at all, allowing the "genes" if you will to awaken in the clone's subsequent child.

Any thoughts about this?
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rey's father was a clone of Palatine? I don't remember this being mentioned in TRoS...but then I only saw it once in the theater. Has this been confirmed?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From how i read it, he was not a clone of palp, but a SON of palp...
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wookieepedia has him as a strandcast clone... basically, you start with your template (Sheev) and genetically manipulate it to be a bit different.

An example is how Brad Pitt is a strandcast of me, but with the intelligence and sexiness turned way down. Wink

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Rey%27s_father

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Strand-Cast
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: Cloning and the force Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Rey's father was a clone of Palatine? I don't remember this being mentioned in TRoS...but then I only saw it once in the theater. Has this been confirmed?

Yes. I've seen TRoS five times (the last time at home with captions on). I've read the film's novelization. I have the Visual Dictionary. And I am fortunate enough that my computer accesses Wookieepedia. It's confirmed.

Rey's father and at least three snokes were all failed clones of Palpatine. (I really hated typing that stupid preceding sentence.) Rey's father being a failure because he wasn't Force-sensitive, while the snokes had the Force but were failures because they are hideous deformities (well, more than the McDiarmid-form Palpatine was, in some ways). See this thread.

garhkal wrote:
From how i read it, he was not a clone of palp, but a SON of palp...

No. Rey's father is a clone of Palpatine. Rey's father had no mother so Rey doesn't have a paternal grandmother, and genetically Palpatine is really more like an uncle than a grandfather to Rey anyway.

Mamatried wrote:
It has always been an issue with cloning force senitives successfully.

Has it really been much of an issue though? In the early 90s, a Jedi Master and Luke Skywalker were clones (Thrawn Trilogy), and Palpatine was resurrected through a series of clones he could transfer his spirit too (Dark Empire), the latter of which was the inspiration for Palpatine's "canon" resurrection in TRoS.

Mamatried wrote:
However having seen the sequals and following the reveal about Rey's parents, I think maybe the old fart, may have solved the issue with force clonings.

Now wwe do not in any way know if Rey's father, who we do know was a clone of Palpatine, was force sensitive.
But if we heed the words of Yoda, and other Jedi we know that the force is in all living things, and perhaps the solutuon to cloning a "jedi" or a force user is to make a clone that perhaps is not force sensitive at all, allowing the "genes" if you will to awaken in the clone's subsequent child.

Any thoughts about this?

That actually makes some sense to me. I've always felt that cloning Force-sensitivity should be very difficult, like maybe the midi-chlorians actively work to foil the cloning process, because unnatural Force sensitivity has too high of a potential for evil purposes. Although I really hated how the idea was used in TRoS (Rey's father, the snokes, rotting-Palp), at least it did reflect that it wasn't easy to clone Palpatine's Force-sensitivity in a totally satisfactory way. Although Rey's father was a failure for direct-use by not being Force-sensitive, the Sith Cult intentionally let him go out in to the galaxy in hopes that he would procreate offspring that could be inhabitable by his spirit (and "all the Sith" Rolling Eyes ), which is exactly what happened for Rey.

If a clone is fertile, then yeah, maybe offspring could be Force-sensitive easier.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
An example is how Brad Pitt is a strandcast of me, but with the intelligence and sexiness turned way down. Wink

I'm sure you're nearly as intelligent as Brad Pitt.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Cloning and the force Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

Has it really been much of an issue though? In the early 90s, a Jedi Master and Luke Skywalker were clones (Thrawn Trilogy), and Palpatine was resurrected through a series of clones he could transfer his spirit too (Dark Empire), the latter of which was the inspiration for Palpatine's "canon" resurrection in TRoS.


From what i remember of the clone of cyboth.. HE WAS insane.. And luuke's clone, caused his head to hurt when in close proximity..
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Cloning and the force Reply with quote

According to Zahn, the Force interfered with the cloning process in general, even for non-Force-sensitive clones. That is why they needed those special animals to speed up the process. Luke's clone was a problem for Luke, not the clone. Good point about the Jedi Master clone being insane.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Cloning and the force Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
According to Zahn, the Force interfered with the cloning process in general, even for non-Force-sensitive clones. That is why they needed those special animals to speed up the process. Luke's clone was a problem for Luke, not the clone. Good point about the Jedi Master clone being insane.



Kaminoans did solve this to a degree, with millions of jango Fett Clones.

Now even in the various legends scources, maybe with the exception of Crimson Empire, we see ALL force sensitive clones have some form of deffect, be it insanty or otherwise.

Crimosn Empire I mentioned as an exception becuse the "palpatine clones" was sabotaged, aand killed, leaving us in the dark regardin any default.


However it seems that cloning of non force sensitives did work, after all it was nothing wrong with the kamino clones, even though ahandful did have deformaties, that is mere statsistics.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it was an issue with the Sparrti cloning tanks, vs the Kaminoian tanks??
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