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Shields as Cover
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose I got a little off track with my modification to the results table, but the gist of what I was saying is to use the preexisting rules for cover and protection, applied as is to Shield dice. The advantage there is that it doesn’t require learning a completely new house rule; someone familiar with the existing cover rules doesn’t need to learn a new rule.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I suppose I got a little off track with my modification to the results table, but the gist of what I was saying is to use the preexisting rules for cover and protection, applied as is to Shield dice. The advantage there is that it doesn’t require learning a completely new house rule; someone familiar with the existing cover rules doesn’t need to learn a new rule.


Sure. Now:

Quote:
0-3 Shield Drained (No damage to protected ship, but shields do not defend against any follow-up attacks that round).


With above rule, at how many "D" would you add to ships' shields (on average for each group: fighters, transports, capital ships)?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Edited: Alternatively shield can stay at this level, but then (since practically any shot bypasses them) the rules from D6 space can be used, namely:

"Shields that let pass through more than 3 times their current set-ting die code (not including pips) in damage are overloaded. They shut
down, and the pilot must restart them, which takes a round."
So, an X-Wing could use shields three times before overload.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That concept was a mistake, in retrospect. I’d most likely revert back to the original Cover result, where a 0-3 results in no appreciable damage inflicted.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
That concept was a mistake, in retrospect. I’d most likely revert back to the original Cover result, where a 0-3 results in no appreciable damage inflicted.

OK. But do you think about upgrading the base shield die code then? Falcon took a lot of beating from TIEs & Destroyers before loosing shields...
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
That concept was a mistake, in retrospect. I’d most likely revert back to the original Cover result, where a 0-3 results in no appreciable damage inflicted.

OK. But do you think about upgrading the base shield die code then? Falcon took a lot of beating from TIEs & Destroyers before loosing shields...

Tough to say. I think it’s obvious that the WEG Shield RAW doesn’t accurately reflect how shields are seen to work in the films, but film evidence indicates a pretty complex system anyway.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm coming back around to this on the basis of what I posted here. In particular, this post by Totally Not An ISB Agent. While his suggestion is severely unbalancing when applied to the RAW Shield Rules, it plays out much better in combination with what's being proposed in this topic.

Short version, when a ship has its Shields up, said Shield provides 100% Cover in all Fire Arcs, and must be overcome by brute force in order to damage the ship underneath.

However, as an inverse of the RAW Rules, Shield dice can be stacked to provide greater coverage in one arc at the expense of other, but at greater Difficulty the more you stack them.

I had forgotten that I had suggested folding Shields Drained into this rule, but in retrospect, it makes a lot of sense. I had originally planned on posting a full version of this rule tonight, but then I re-encountered the Shields Drained concept from the first page, and I need to think about how I'd fold it in with my Revised Damage Chart. And I'm tired. It's been a crazy past few days.

Anyways, just wanted to bump this and see if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions before I put in some work on it tomorrow.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

However, as an inverse of the RAW Rules, Shield dice can be stacked to provide greater coverage in one arc at the expense of other, but at greater Difficulty the more you stack them.
....
Anyways, just wanted to bump this and see if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions before I put in some work on it tomorrow.


It's ok with the movies, especially TPM: one button on N1 and starfighter gets full cover.

As for shield angling, in order to avoid any overpowering shield stacking, I would limit it to doubling the original value.

1D means that 2D max can be angled to a single arc.

2D meand that 4D, ect.

Any surplus could be treated as an auxiliary power for the shields blown for this particular arc:

A ship with 1D can put all power to front but gaining only 2D total. But successful roll means it also 2D of auxiliary from the other arcs. So if its shield goes down -1D, it is automatically replaced by 1D of aux. If it gets blown again, second aux kicks in. If the third blown occurs, no aux is available and front shield drops to 1D and repairs are needed.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a fan of arbitrary caps; characters should be allowed to shoot for the moon and occasionally hit it if they roll high enough.

My thought is more along the lines of what Whill talked about here, where Shields can simply be "up" or can be rolled as a reaction.

Basically, I'm picturing a two-step process; a character can simply raise their shields and get the Protection of the basic Dice value, or if they choose to use Shields as a reaction, they can roll to specifically angle the Shields against existing attacks, with the resulting bonus (+1 for every 3 points of Success on the Shield skill roll) added to the Shield Dice. The bonus would only last for that round, and any attempt to Angle the Shields against the next round's attacks would have to be rolled again.

In the case of most starfighters, the pilots are going to have enough on their plate already, so they'll most likely just be rerouting power or stabilizing Shields in one arc than spending the time trying to angle. That'd be the role of a dedicated Shield Operator or some such.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The bonus would only last for that round, and any attempt to Angle the Shields against the next round's attacks would have to be rolled again.


I see the idea of extra boost for good roll.

But have we seen anything that would indicate X Wing pilots angling shields every round during attack on DS1? As far as I remember they switched double front during initial run and in the trench on the rear due to TIEs.

Solo in TESB put double front (he has to leave his seat) during attack on ISD. It was like 2-3 rounds.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
But have we seen anything that would indicate X Wing pilots angling shields every round during attack on DS1? As far as I remember they switched double front during initial run and in the trench on the rear due to TIEs.

The only time "angle the deflectors" was spoken out loud was during the Death Star escape in ANH. The main commands used by the starfighters during the Battle of Yavin were, "switch all power to front deflector screens", "stabilize your rear deflectors", and "switch your shields on, double front".

Quote:
Solo in TESB put double front (he has to leave his seat) during attack on ISD. It was like 2-3 rounds.

Solo's actual line was "I'm gonna put all power to the front shields".

It's taken me a bit, but I've come up with plausible rule explanations for "angling" and "stabilizing" that fit both with the RAW (see the above link) and with the Shields as Cover/Protection rule here.

Based on who is seen doing what on screen, my thought is that "angling" requires a degree of fine-tuning that, while possible, isn't worth the payoff for a single-crew fighter ala the X-Wing or Y-Wing, and that most pilots will stick to power switching and layering shields into the arc that's the primary threat (usually front or rear) and that's it. Ships with a backseater or an astromech who has a moment to spare from all the other tasks at hand could potentially attempt it, but as a rule, angling is either something that happens on ships with a dedicated shield control crewmember (or team) or something only attempted by extremely skilled and experienced pilots who can keep ahead of the incumbent MAPs.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my proposed rule for Shields as Cover/Protection, incorporating concepts from the above linked topic.

    1). When a ship's Shields are up, the Shields provide 100% Cover in all Fire Arcs, with Protection equal to the Shield's Base Dice Value. Raising the Shields in their default mode requires an Easy Shields roll.

    2). On a successful Hit, the attacker rolls Damage against only the Shield dice. On a successful Damage roll, the target suffers an automatic Shields Drained result (no Shield protection for the rest of the round), and also :

      0-3 = No Appreciable Damage
      4-8 = -4D to Damage
      9-12 = -2D to Damage
      13-15 = -1D to Damage
      16+ = -0D to Damage
    Roll the Dice modifier and subtract it from the Attacker's original Damage roll, then apply the modifier Damage value to the target's Hull dice result.

    3). Shield Operators may attempt to divert energy into fewer arcs, thus increasing the base Shield Protection value. However, the Difficulty doing so increases as the number of protected arcs decreases:
      # of Arcs = Difficulty (Shield Dice Modifier)
      3 = Moderate (+2)
      2 = Difficult (+1D)
      1 = Very Difficult (+2D)
    On a failed roll, the Shields revert to their default level of protection.

    Another common tactic is to use the one Shield to reinforce the Shield in the opposite arc, resulting in one Arc being Protected at Shields +1D, the two adjoining arcs at Shields +0D, and the final arc having no Protection at all.

    4). Ships with Auxiliary Power dice available may transfer a maximum of 1D to Shields, even if the ship has more than 1D of Auxiliary Power available.

    5). Options for Shield Operators:
      Angling: Shield operators may roll their Shield skill as a Reaction to attacks, "angling" the shields in order to provide a better defense, but this can backfire, as a mistake can actually create exploitable openings in the shield coverage. In game terms, using the Base Difficulty (see #1) as a benchmark, the Shield's dice result is increased or decreased by 1 point for every 3 points by which the Shield Operator beat or missed the Difficulty number. In order to receive the Angling Bonus, the Shield Operator must re-roll Shields as a reaction to declared attacks every round.

      Stabilizing:
      Shield operators may redirect all shield energy to a single arc, then lock specific settings and segmenting field overlaps into place to bolster the deflector shield. This takes 1 additional round to perform, but adds +1D to the Shield Dice (Preparation rule). However, disengaging from Stabilized mode also requires one round, during which the shields can not be repositioned or angled. As such, this mode is generally used only in situations where the shielded ship expects to come under sustained attack from a single fire arc, such as extened pursuits or when a fighter or transport is operating in an area that provides natural cover to the other arcs.


    6). Finally, Shield Generation systems may also be assigned a Shield Control Dice value. This works similarly to Fire Control, but applies to Shield skill rolls. Shield Control will generally run in the 0D-4D range, with the following as basic guidelines:
      0D-1D = Most merchant and civilian ships.
      1D-2D = Basic, mass produced military vessels (including most starfighters).
      2D-3D = Warships with larger, more complex shield systems
      3D-4D = Warships known for having extremely capable and versatile shield systems (such as Mon Cal Cruisers)

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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like a good option for GMs.
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