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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Zarn wrote: | | Aren't you essentially reinventing repulsorlift tanks with that? |
No. It's still two different systems; repulsorlift tanks still use a combination of anti-gravity and tractor-field propulsion to stay off the ground. This just uses force fields to augment air-cushion lift, so the vehicle is still riding on a cushion of pressurized air, but the "skirt" is a force field which conforms to the surface under the vehicle to make the air pressure system more effective.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16272
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | While thumbing through the Corporate Sector Handbook looking for something else, I was struck by the sheer number of civilian & police vehicles that could potentially round out my basic selection of light vehicle stats. The law enforcement vehicles alone include a combat van (SWAT Teams?), a riot suppression vehicle and a mobile detention wagon. The available civilian vehicles are also quite extensive, including both a limousine and the SWU-equivalent of a pimped-out lowrider (the one from Han Solo & The Lost Legacy). I strongly expect I'll be attempting some of these as rest breaks between more complicated stats. |
It's been two years since I posted this, and I've never quite gotten back around to it. I'm thinking of doing these vehicles as police / law enforcement platforms, as well as changing up stats for the Espo Patrol Walker, a couple of the patrol airspeeders and the zZip 222 Aerofighter.
Anyone have any other requests?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10397
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:10 pm Post subject: cloud car speed code |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | Storm IV-Class Combat Cloud Car
Craft: Bespin Motors' Storm IV-Class
Type: Atmospheric Patrol & Combat Vehicle
Scale: Starship (+6D)
Length: 7 meters
Skill: Airspeeder Operation: Storm IV
Crew: 2 (1 @ +10)
Crew Skill:
Sensors 4D
Starship Gunnery 4D
Airspeeder Operation 4D
Cargo Capacity: 10 kilograms (.25 cubic meters)
Cover: Full (Pressurized Cockpit)
Cost: 75,000 credits new, 28,000 used
Maneuverability: 3D+2
Move: 520; 1,500 kph (8D)
Altitude Range: 10 meters to 200 kilometers
Body: 3D
Sensors:
Passive 10/1D
Scan 35/2D+1
Search 60/3D+1
Focus 3/4D
Weapons:
2 Laser Cannon (Fire-Linked)
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: 1 (pilot)
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Range: 1-3/12/25
Damage: 5D
2 Light Warhead Launchers (Fire-Linked)
Fire Arc: Front
Crew: 1 (co-pilot)
Skill: Starship Gunnery
Rate of Fire: 1
All Other Stats vary by Warhead Type
Ammo: 4 missiles per launcher. May select Light Missiles & Rockets from this list, depending on Availability.
Capsule:
The Storm IV Twin-Pod Cloud Car is an atmospheric patrol and combat vehicle that was originally designed for high-altitude operation on the gas giant of Bespin. While other cloud cars are designed for light passenger transport applications, the Storm IV was designed from the outset as a combatant. Capable of operating up to low orbit, the Storm IV's respectable armament and high speed make it a formidable opponent for starfighters, even though it lacks a starfighter's versatility and mobility. The ship's two-man crew shares duties, with the pilot flying the ship and operating the laser cannon while the co-pilot handles the sensors and concussion missile launchers, as well as acting as a spotter for the pilot.
What I Changed, and Why:
Scale: Strictly by size, the Storm IV is comparable to other starfighters in the films (and is actually larger than the TIE). While WEG made it the same basic scale for 1E, they pretty much emasculated it with the transition to 2E. The closest we see the Storm IV get to an actual combat scene is when they intercept the Falcon at Bespin and fire across its bow. While Han's plan wasn't to fight his way through them, the WEG 2E stats would render the cloud cars completely ineffective against a craft like the Falcon, and not every starship the cloud cars intercept would be so inclined to play nice. As such, they need to be formidable enough to take on likely opponents. That means bumping them up to the same scale as likely opponents... |
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | To facilitate this, as well as my earlier House Rule about allowing ships to add their Speed Dice to resist Tractor Beams, I think I'm going to go through my Index and add 1E Speed Codes to all the starfighters and capital ships. The scary part? I remember doing the math on the Storm IV; it has an effective Speed Code of 10D... |
Okay, so I've gone through and added 1E Speed Codes to all of the ships and flying vehicles in my Stat Index. As I did so, it occurred to me that the Dueling Blades variant I outlined above could be used as a basis for vehicle and capital ship combat, too, but that's beyond the purview of this topic. |
What is the 8D in the Move? The Speed Code? What's this about an effective code of 10D?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16272
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:18 pm Post subject: cloud car speed code |
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| Whill wrote: | | What is the 8D in the Move? The Speed Code? |
It can be either the Speed Code for those who want to play 1E, or the Responsiveness modifier used to determine range in the dogfighting rules. I decided to use a mixed system where the 2E Move values are used for straight-line contests of speed, but the Speed Code is used as a measurement of the ability to pull away from / stay on the tail of an enemy fighter in combat.
Obviously, with 8D in Speed, the Storm IV has a huge advantage in thrust in atmosphere.
| Quote: | | What's this about an effective code of 10D? |
That was a miscalculation on my part. I had originally thought that the Storm IV's Atmosphere Speed relative to the A-Wing would've been 10D to the A-Wing's 6D, but when I actually got around to converting it (including comparing it to the conversion chart in the Blue Vader book), I realized it was only 8D.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10397
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:30 pm Post subject: speed code / ionization |
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I already adopted your concept of hull+speed code to break a tractor capture with hull vs. speed code to determine engine damage.
I've decided to also use speed code or maneuverability to determine the threshold where controls ionized results freeze controls, because most ships don't have much maneuverability and it just seems too low. Getting those controls ionized results can quickly become more deadly than light damages.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16272
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:41 pm Post subject: speed code / ionization |
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| Quote: | | I already adopted your concept of hull+speed code to break a tractor capture with hull vs. speed code to determine engine damage. |
I'd forgotten about the Hull + Speed Code vs. Tractor Beam, so that's a third useful application. Thank you.
| Whill wrote: | | I've decided to also use speed code or maneuverability to determine the threshold where controls ionized results freeze controls, because most ships don't have much maneuverability and it just seems too low. Getting those controls ionized results can quickly become more deadly than light damages. |
One possible alternative would be to simply allow Maneuverability Ionization to continue down into negative values (so it's applied as a penalty to any Maneuver attempts) and base Controls Dead solely on Engine Ionization Level, so that any ship, regardless of Maneuverability, has to take at least 5D of Ionization to reach Controls Dead.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Posts: 10397
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:39 am Post subject: Ionization |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | I've decided to also use speed code or maneuverability to determine the threshold where controls ionized results freeze controls, because most ships don't have much maneuverability and it just seems too low. Getting those controls ionized results can quickly become more deadly than light damages. |
One possible alternative would be to simply allow Maneuverability Ionization to continue down into negative values (so it's applied as a penalty to any Maneuver attempts) |
That's a separate concern from the problem I was mentioning (see below), but this actually makes it more punitive. Controls ionized results reduce some ship stats such as maneuverability and weapon fire control by 1D for each result in effect at any given time. By penalizing ship stats instead of skill rolls, when any ship die codes are reduced to zero they can't be reduced further regardless of how many results are in effect.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | base Controls Dead solely on Engine Ionization Level, so that any ship, regardless of Maneuverability, has to take at least 5D of Ionization to reach Controls Dead. |
This does address what I was referring to. Some ships don't even have maneuverability. This solution removes the variability of the threshold for 'controls dead' from being based on a ship's maneuverability dice and instead makes it a constant 5D for all ships. On my vehicle and spaceship damage charts, ion damage goes up to a -4D 'control ionized' result for the equivalent of destroyed for normal damage. Maybe a 4D or 5D threshold to 'controls dead' makes sense with respect to that. I will consider this. Thanks.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16272
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:55 am Post subject: Ionization |
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| Whill wrote: | | That's a separate concern from the problem I was mentioning (see below), but this actually makes it more punitive. Controls ionized results reduce some ship stats such as maneuverability and weapon fire control by 1D for each result in effect at any given time. By penalizing ship stats instead of skill rolls, when any ship die codes are reduced to zero they can't be reduced further regardless of how many results are in effect. |
I think there's something to it, though. The idea of negative penalties applying to things stackable values like Maneuverability and Fire Control makes sense. Sure, if an Ionization penalty exceeded the Damage output of a weapon, it shouldn't be able to fire, but I think there's something to the gunner with 5D Gunnery firing a 2D FC Turbolaser having to suddenly deal with a -3D or -4D penalty that still allows him to fire the guns, just at greatly reduced accuracy.
| Quote: | | This does address what I was referring to. Some ships don't even have maneuverability. This solution removes the variability of the threshold for 'controls dead' from being based on a ship's maneuverability dice and instead makes it a constant 5D for all ships. On my vehicle and spaceship damage charts, ion damage goes up to a -4D 'control ionized' result for the equivalent of destroyed for normal damage. Maybe a 4D or 5D threshold to 'controls dead' makes sense with respect to that. I will consider this. Thanks. |
Okay, I thought I had included this in my Ionization rules, but I appear to have left it out. Short version, every 1D of Ionization also inflicts a Lost Move, so...1D = Limited to High
2D = Limited to Cruising
3D = Limited to Cautious
4D = Temporarily Immobilized until Ionization penalties roll off.
5D = Ship Immobilized, Controls Dead until repaired. So, you're correct that at 4D, Controls would be Dead, but only temporarily so. At 5D, that's when it gets so bad that the ship requires repair before the systems can come back on line. And yeah, making it a constant 5D cap for every ship (with the resistance variable being based on their Hull dice) does balance it nicely.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Posts: 10397
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:28 am Post subject: Ionization |
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I think of ion damage as stun damage for machines, so I prefer ion damage to only be a temporary penalties and not require repairs itself. I definitely do not like your 5D result for that reason. Ionization can still be deadly enough by draining shields, causing penalties, and potentially freezing controls so the ship may crash into something.
Other than your 5D result, I like the general idea of temporary version of lost speed levels, but that isn't what controls freezing from ionization is. It's described as the vehicle keeps moving as it was when the result occurred, moving without the ability to change speed or course. So if the spaceship was moving high speed, it suddenly couldn't move a lesser speed. Your version slows the ship down, so that is a lot different. I'm not sure I want to completely do away with RAW's concept.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16272
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:56 am Post subject: Ioinzation |
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I added the rule because, IMO, if ionization affects all of the ship's electronics, then logically that should include the ship's drives, or at the very least the electronic systems controlling them. WEG Ionization rules are strangely arbitrary, where some systems seem immune to ionization for no apparent reason. This was my effort at making Ionization truly affect the entire ship.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:30 pm Post subject: Ionization/Inertia |
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As I recall I was inspired by your system and I did add systems that were effected by 'controls ionized' including penalizing player rolls for communications and astrogation because those don't have ship stats. But are we talking about the same thing? I'm talking about the bottom left of R&E p. 128, and my house version of that.
Specifically for the worst result of 'controls ionized' which is 'controls frozen' everything is effected. But Newton's first law indicates that an object in motion tends to stay in motion, at the same vector, unless acted upon by an outside force. If there is a total loss of control, a ship flying in space will keep going the same speed and direction it was. It won't slow down unless you hit something (or something with significant mass hits you). Even in RAW, you can't dodge, use shields, or fire weapons when controls are frozen. So even if you are in open space and there is nothing to crash into, the real danger of 'controls frozen' is being defenseless against attackers. You can't evade. Moving at the same speed in the same direction, you are an easy target for enemies.
Above you indicated rules that indicate with each 'ionized controls' result slows the ship down among other things. I think that works fine if that's how you want it to work, but that is a full substitution (including fluff) for what 'ionized controls' means and does in RAW. I did adopt a version of your 'shields drained' for what happens before 'controls ionized' (because shields being blown occurs later in the damage rules), but so far I am not seeing any reason to change the movement aspect of 'controls ionized' from a loss of control to a loss of inertia.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16272
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:04 pm Post subject: Inertia |
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It's tied up with my explanation of why ships in the SWU have maximum speeds. My theory revolves around the functioning of inertial / acceleration compensators, in that, rather than simply dissipating the energy, it redirects it externally, which in turn creates a distortion in space/time that has the appearance of drag, and which must be constantly thrust against by the ship's drives. If the drives cut out, the ship slowly coasts to a relative halt because its own inertial compensators are acting as brakes.
It's the best technobabble I've got to explain why ships in space behave as though they're operating in atmosphere. It can't be the environment, and it can't be different physics, therefore it must be the craft themselves causing the effect.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:59 pm Post subject: Inertial compensation |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | It's tied up with my explanation of why ships in the SWU have maximum speeds. My theory revolves around the functioning of inertial / acceleration compensators, in that, rather than simply dissipating the energy, it redirects it externally, which in turn creates a distortion in space/time that has the appearance of drag, and which must be constantly thrust against by the ship's drives. If the drives cut out, the ship slowly coasts to a relative halt because its own inertial compensators are acting as brakes.
It's the best technobabble I've got to explain why ships in space behave as though they're operating in atmosphere. It can't be the environment, and it can't be different physics, therefore it must be the craft themselves causing the effect. |
Well like several SW technologies, inertial compensation is physics-suppressing, but this does make sense within in the setting. Thanks for explaining your thought process in more detail. Of course, if ionization also effects the inertial compensator, then a ship out of control should still move the same speed and direction for safety.
I did include the inertial compensator in my light damage chart. If it goes offline, a failsafe kicks in for the rest of the round that freezes the vector to not kill the crew (or damage the ship) by maneuvers. The beginning of the next round, a slightly less effective backup compensator kicks in. If the backup goes down, the failsafe kicks in again, and then they will have a chance to slow down slowly but they need to repair or jury-rig one of the compensators to safety attempt combat, fast acceleration, fast deceleration, or other high-speed maneuvers.
I'll think about all this for my ionized rules.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16272
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:57 pm Post subject: Inertia/Ionization |
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My theory there (which, again, is based more on ease of gameplay than any particular scientific reasoning) is that the technology behind artificial gravity and inertial dampening is resistant to ionization effects, mostly as a result of the energy fields generated incidentally by the effects themselves. This allows the ship to maintain artificial gravity even in the event of a Controls Dead result, and also to drift to a halt in the event of a Lost Move.
ADMIN EDIT: This ionization discussion continues here.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16272
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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So, as I'm writing up stats for the latest Fractalsponge walkers, I've encountered something irritating about the AT-ST. It's well known that the -ST stands for "Scout Transport", and at the time, there were only two walkers in existence, so the name wasn't hugely important. However, as both official and fan-made walkers have proliferated, so too has the nomenclature used in their titles.
The word that irritates me is Transport. It makes sense for the AT-AT to be called an Armored Transport because it devotes a huge portion of its volume to transporting ground troops. However, the AT-ST (and the AT-XT by extension) doesn't "transport" anything besides their own crew, so it doesn't really count as a Transport. I've been mulling over the idea of swapping out "Transport" for "Vehicle" and, in the process of writing this post, realized I'd actually already partially done it (the AT-PT is called the AT-PV - "Patrol Vehicle" - in my Index, and I've reimagined the AT-XT as the AT-AV "Attack Vehicle").
As such, I'm going to be relabeling the AT-ST as the AT-SV "Scout Vehicle" (with the appropriate notation that it used to be the AT-ST). This will include the upcoming sub-variant AT-SV/a by Fractalsponge.
Incidentally, since I mentioned the AT-PT, Fractal has mostly finished his own version, which is greatly improved over existing models. I'll hold off posting until he puts a gallery up.
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The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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