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Rank the 11 Star Wars films
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What is your favorite Star Wars film?
Star Wars: A New Hope
32%
 32%  [ 13 ]
The Empire Strikes Back
32%
 32%  [ 13 ]
Return of the Jedi
7%
 7%  [ 3 ]
The Phantom Menace
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Attack of the Clones
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Revenge of the Sith
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Solo
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Rogue One
17%
 17%  [ 7 ]
The Force Awakens
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
The Last Jedi
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
The Rise of Skywalker
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 40

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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
"Bashing the films or George Lucas will not be tolerated on these forums."

Why are you citing the forum guidelines here? This doesn't quote any other text, so this appears to be a random quotation of a single sentence in a forum guideline.

I'm guessing it is in response to the recent posts that include jokes about watching the Disney Trio. Your guidelines quote is removed from key explanation immediately following it. We can't just cherry pick stuff out of it. The whole is important.

Quote:
Bashing the films or George Lucas will not be tolerated on these forums. So you can still express your negative opinions and dislikes of these subjects, but please refrain from expressing excessive negativity and check yourself before you go into rant mode against them.

Nexx, "bashing" is excessive negativity, which did not occur here. No one went into rant mode here. Not even close. My essay, "TRoS, The Sequel Trilogy & The Skywalker Saga" is much, much worse with criticism than these little jokes here you are responding to, but even that wasn't bashing.

We had a guy that went into full rant mode against a movie without having even seen the movie. His cousin told him some things about the movie, some of which were incorrect. Excessively negative, factually erroneous, and prejudiced to boot. Then when I pointed these things out to him, he proceeded to argue that he was only doing what people do on the internet all the time, which is exactly why we have forum guidelines here forbidding that behavior. He got a blue warning, then a red warning, and then he finally stopped his diatribe. That was bashing. If he ever does it again, he is getting banned.

If you still feel it is confusing or too subjective, remember that it is not your judgment call to make. If there is ever bashing here, it will be up to the moderators and myself to address it. All you have to worry about is not bashing films yourself. Thank you.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see a distinct difference between "Expressing a negative opinion" and "random jabs at the movies you dislike"; the second falls into the realm of "bashing", as it is not constructive or illustrative.

A negative opinion is "I dislike The Rise of Skywalker because hyperspace skipping makes no sense in the lore." It might even be "I don't like this movie." Bashing is "Watching The Rise of Skywalker is like giving a prostate exam to a bobcat in a phone booth." It does not add anything constructive; it is not a point of discussion. It is, in my opinion, excessive negativity, because it doesn't engage with them, just bashes.

This is, I feel, in line with the rules as written. If we accept "The movies [you like] are crap" as not being bashing, then there are severely different definitions of bashing involved.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Bashing is "Watching The Rise of Skywalker is like giving a prostate exam to a bobcat in a phone booth."

Ah, but that wasn't what I said. I presented it as an either/or. If you like the films, then it should be an easy choice to make. It's the people who hate the Disney films who face a difficult decision.
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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There were several things I really disliked about the most recent trilogy, the Holdo Move, lighspace skipping, and force teleporting to name a few, but I did actually enjoy the movies overall. I just don't see them as canon IMSU...
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Bidlo wrote:
There were several things I really disliked about the most recent trilogy, the Holdo Move, lighspace skipping, and force teleporting to name a few, but I did actually enjoy the movies overall. I just don't see them as canon IMSU...

I can actually fit the Holdo Maneuver into my understanding of hyperspace, and teleportation of small objects was already part of the EU under a non-Jedi Force tradition (see Zahn's version of the Aing-Tii Monks), but hyper-skipping was... too much.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
I see a distinct difference between "Expressing a negative opinion" and "random jabs at the movies you dislike"; the second falls into the realm of "bashing", as it is not constructive or illustrative.

A negative opinion is "I dislike The Rise of Skywalker because hyperspace skipping makes no sense in the lore." It might even be "I don't like this movie." Bashing is "Watching The Rise of Skywalker is like giving a prostate exam to a bobcat in a phone booth." It does not add anything constructive; it is not a point of discussion. It is, in my opinion, excessive negativity, because it doesn't engage with them, just bashes.

This is, I feel, in line with the rules as written. If we accept "The movies [you like] are crap" as not being bashing, then there are severely different definitions of bashing involved.

Yes, there could be different definitions of bashing which is why in my last post I cited an additional sentence of the guideline which does give connotation beyond the single sentence you quoted, why I gave further examples of what is and is not bashing here, and also why I reminded you that it's not your call to make. So the fact that there are different definitions does not grant you the right to choose a definition more to your tolerance and try to enforce that here.

Not adding anything constructive to conversation is about half of all posts here. So constructiveness can't be a deciding factor or all I would be doing is moderation. Constructiveness is subjective, and not being constructive is not necessarily being destructive.

Engagement? Now that's rich. My contributions to threads, even when I am on topic, even when I am responding with quoted text to another post, and even when I am supportive, are routinely ignored in conversations, even by the person I am quoting. I often try to engage people who refuse mere acknowledgement. So we should have a rule that posts are "engaging" to each other?

This short thread alone had two people that ranked my third fave film last. And one person ranked my second fave film last. But they didn't make it personal against me, and they didn't bash the films by the definition that actual matters here. In a thread where everyone is invited to rank the films, everyone will have a last film, and despite some trends, everyone's rankings will be different. Rankings are pure opinion.

I get the feelings. I had to live through the era where prequel bashing was the norm of Star Wars fandom and there were no guidelines against it. How many times have I read someone say Lucas raped their childhood because Vader was shown as kid who got separated from his mom? And even in prior live-action theatrical film ranking threads here, we had people express more extreme sentiments like "#1,000,000 TPM" or insert the Ewok TV films or cartoon films they know weren't part of the ask into their ranking above the real movie they hate. Unnecessary? Check. Do I feel it is childish and a little annoying? Yes. Was it personal against me? No. Was it bashing? Not as defined here.

"The movies [you like] are crap." This is key to your motivation here. If someone actually said, "the movies you like are crap," that would be making it a personal attack which is not allowed per other guidelines. But instead, what we had here is, [you like] in brackets. Before yesterday, your last post in this thread was 2 years ago on page 1. None of the recent posts in this thread referred to you or your posts, even indirectly. The [you like] is in brackets because you are the one inserting yourself into something that had nothing to do with you. You were just reading this thread, and got offended. You are taking jokes cracking on movies that you just happen to like, personally. It's not about you.

Whill wrote:
Solo4114 wrote:
3. The Last Jedi -- I know a lot of people don't like this one. I don't actually care. I think it's amazing. It has a fantastic message, it refuses to be hidebound by tradition, and it has deeper characterization than any of the other films...

Thank you for posting this. You shouldn't care. Like what you like. I'm really happy for you that you enjoyed it so much, and a little jealous.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Bidlo wrote:
There were several things I really disliked about the most recent trilogy, the Holdo Move, lighspace skipping, and force teleporting to name a few, but I did actually enjoy the movies overall. I just don't see them as canon IMSU...

THe hyerpsace skipping, totally broke with what i see as canon SW, since we flat out were told by several folk in the OT, that plotting hyperspace jumps is a demanding and precise act, due to gravity wells possibly destroying ships.. AND was echoed in the RPG...

CRMcNeill wrote:
Dr. Bidlo wrote:
There were several things I really disliked about the most recent trilogy, the Holdo Move, lighspace skipping, and force teleporting to name a few, but I did actually enjoy the movies overall. I just don't see them as canon IMSU...

I can actually fit the Holdo Maneuver into my understanding of hyperspace, and teleportation of small objects was already part of the EU under a non-Jedi Force tradition (see Zahn's version of the Aing-Tii Monks), but hyper-skipping was... too much.


I'll have to see if i can read up some more on the Aing ting, to see if they had some sort of force teleport... BUT even if they did, how would Rey and Kylo have learned those powers??
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
Dr. Bidlo wrote:
There were several things I really disliked about the most recent trilogy, the Holdo Move, lighspace skipping, and force teleporting to name a few, but I did actually enjoy the movies overall. I just don't see them as canon IMSU...

I can actually fit the Holdo Maneuver into my understanding of hyperspace, and teleportation of small objects was already part of the EU under a non-Jedi Force tradition (see Zahn's version of the Aing-Tii Monks), but hyper-skipping was... too much.

I'll have to see if i can read up some more on the Aing ting, to see if they had some sort of force teleport... BUT even if they did, how would Rey and Kylo have learned those powers??

Rey and Kylo Ben didn't learn the power of Force teleportation. In the Disney Universe, it is an instinctive power that exists between the two members of a "Force dyad."
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:02 am    Post subject: AotC Reply with quote

https://www.polygon.com/22875571/attack-of-the-clones-star-wars-obi-wan-2022

I don't necessarily agree with all of this, but I had to share an article actually praising AotC.
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ThrorII
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen a fanedit of AotC that shows there is a good movie in there. The fanedit re-installed deleted scenes to give the Anakin-Padme relationship room to grow and seem more natural, it toned down Anakin's outbursts and made them more subtle, removed the corny 3PO-Battledroid escapades, and removing the Yoda lightsaber scene (after the force lightning duel, Dooku flees).

It is now my go-to if I watch the prequels.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThrorII wrote:
I've seen a fanedit of AotC that shows there is a good movie in there. The fanedit re-installed deleted scenes to give the Anakin-Padme relationship room to grow and seem more natural, it toned down Anakin's outbursts and made them more subtle, removed the corny 3PO-Battledroid escapades, and removing the Yoda lightsaber scene (after the force lightning duel, Dooku flees).

It is now my go-to if I watch the prequels.

Shocked

AotC is my least fave of the six Lucas films, but wow. I've never thought there was any possible edit were AotC could be better than RotS or TPM, two of my fave SW films.

I love the Threepio-battle droid bit of the battle! I feel it was a stroke of genius to incorporate Threepio into action sequences in that way. Corny, yes, but so fun. I definitely don't want that cut from the film. But then again I do still have a large degree of access to my inner child.

I really have no idea what anyone's issues could be about Yoda's lightsaber duel other than Yoda using the Force to act like a younger Jedi Master not conforming to a grown man's childhood mental image of muppet fighting (not my issue), or the duel is too short (my only issue). As mentioned on the first page of this thread, the three lightsaber duels in AotC are: Obi-Wan's was 35 seconds, Anakin's was 50 seconds, and Yoda's was 39 seconds. There was a lot more lightsaber duel footage shot, but Lucas actually cut action out for the sake of runtime. Maybe some of the choreography was repurposed for RotS, so putting it all back in would include some duplication, but I would at least not cut Yoda's 39-second duel. Also, story wise that 39-second duel was Yoda's only only against his former student in the whole saga. It's not much, but it's still better than nothing IMO.

Toning down Anakin's outbursts may help the film. Regarding the reinsertion of the deleted Anakin-Padmé scenes, I feel that in general I have a good sense of whether deleted scenes would be good back in the film or not. Most of the time I agree with the director on the edit. Sometimes I enjoy the deleted scenes and think they add something to the story, but agree they would hurt the flow of the film so are better watched separately. The Anakin-Padmé love story is one of my biggest criticisms of AotC, and some of the cut scenes don't help it. I did feel that the scenes with Padme's family should have all been reinserted. I have never watched a cut of any Star Wars films with deleted scenes reinserted (except for TPM by a mysterious one-time accident that could not be recreated), so maybe I would appreciate the love story more if I saw it back in the film. I'm just so incredulous that Padmé would fall in love with Anakin at all. The scenes with her family help a little.

Such diversity among fans! To each their own.
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CommanderFocs
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Bidlo wrote:
There were several things I really disliked about the most recent trilogy, the Holdo Move, lighspace skipping, and force teleporting to name a few, but I did actually enjoy the movies overall. I just don't see them as canon IMSU...


Totally agree, the Disney trio bought some... interesting things to the table
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 2:29 pm    Post subject: Attack of the Clones Reply with quote



Attack of the Clones, the first Star Wars film of this century/millennium, came out 20 years ago today. It was the first movie to be shot completely digitally.

It is my least fave film of the Lucas saga and there are some cringeworthy aspects of it for sure, but there is also a lot to like about it.
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Movies
1. A New Hope
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Phantom Menace
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. Rogue One
6. The Force Awakens
7. Return of the Jedi
8. Solo
9. The Rise of Skywalker
10. Attack of the Clones
11. The Last Jedi

Trilogies
1. Classic
2. Prequel
3. Disney
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Attack of the Clones Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
but there is also a lot to like about it.


1) It reads almost *exactly* like a West End adventure a teenage GM would've written at home. Even some of the worst parts would've been awesome if, instead of happening at the movies, had happened as a result of PC wit ha terrible/great idea that succeeded/failed because of the Wild Die and left the GM scrambling to come up with something. Like C-3PO getting turned into a battle droid. Even though we hated it when it came out, my brother and I agreed that it seemed really fun if you reimaginged it as someone wrote down what happened in their West End RPG campaign and then made that as a movie.

2) The very understated signs of the Republic turning into the Empire were cool. Like the logo on Obi-Wan's ship.
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