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Obi-Wan Kenobi [SPOILERS ALLOWED]
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Ninja-Bear
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking to my son, I’m calling the last episode. Reva goes to Tatooine and Obi-Wan is forced to fight and kill her. This mirroring Anakin killing a young king. Luke will probably see a smidge and refer to Ben as old crazy man.
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pakman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really liked episode 5, thought it was put together well, and had some predictable but well done story points.

It was also interesting to see Reva's intention unfold - of course, I (and vader) saw that one coming for a long time. Wink

I think one of the best parts was the duel between anakin and obiwan. I was not sure (and still not ...100%) how much of it was just a memory of a past duel, or a symbolic duel in their minds. based upon the ending of it - I suspect it was supposed to be in the past.

The only annoying factor for me was Bail's message - I would think he would have been smart enough to avoid any uses of proper nouns - but then again, he is a terrified parent freaking out about his child.

Oh, and got to update my move object force power tree - dang....

On a side note -
One of the reasons I love the series because our current d6 game is set in this exact time period - so getting lots of references on early rebel activity, and the thoughts of the citizens about the empire etc.

Also a super fun note - two of the names on the walls of the rebel safehouse are significant npcs in my current game - Quinlin Voss and Corwin Shelvay - the party met Shelvay in last week's session!
(he was getting captured by Inquisitor Tremayne).

I intertwine a ton of EU characters and events into my game, it is just cool when they pop up in star wars stuff....
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Ninja-Bear
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Parkman, I took the fuel with Anakin as both a memory AND symbolism of what was happening during the episode.
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pakman
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ninja-Bear wrote:
Parkman, I took the fuel with Anakin as both a memory AND symbolism of what was happening during the episode.


Agreed.

It was an awesome experience for me - on many levels (some perhaps more than the scene itself justified - or perhaps not).

I loved the clone wars animated series (especially the last 3 seasons) and how anakin and kenobi's characters developed. Combine that with I think that hayden got a lot of undeserved criticism from his work years ago - and it was just awesome for me to see them both on screen in a cool scene that played out on so many levels.

Finally, I can also say as someone with some stage combat experience (years of live theater work - including being trained in stage combat) - that was an an impressive fight sequence - both in the number of moves, their execution and filming.

Really enjoying kenobi, and looking forward to the final episode.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked the raw rage of Vader when he pulled down and torn the transport to pieces. This was Force Unleashed's Vader who taught Galen Marek.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if I have Star War fatigue but the scenes with ships all seem really bad to me. To me they look like a video game cutscene, not a 2022 Disney-level special effects scene.

So now what? Reva survives and goes to Tatooine?

I am having a hard time with how phenomenally stupid the characters act. For example: "Lets carve detailed records of our illegal activities into the wall, so if one safe house is captured, the whole cell is rapidly destroyed!".

Also. How in heck is Baal Organa not more useful? Dude's loaded and politically influential. He should be able to practically deus ex machina them outta these jams.

I can't decide if I like or dislike Leia's costumes being kid versions of her OT costumes.

It was nice to see Hayden get to act believably in a SW project.

This show definitely feels like a hybrid of the things I dislike about the sequels and prequels. It's better than either of those trilogies but overall I'd rank it about even with SOLO or maybe slightly above, depending on how things shake out.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just came across a youtube video discussing a thing I have always wondered about.

How come nobody senese Leia being force sensitive and how is the sensing acutlly "done"

I belive that being force sentive alone doe not actually make anyone detect you, even if they are actively using powers.

However trained or not, once you have tapped in and used a power then you can be detected?

IDK......I don't see in any way form books or movies or tv shows that inquisitors sense automatically people being force sensitive, and with this Leia thing is even more "strange" given she was face to face with vader.

so I belive it comes doen to USE of the force and thus being detected, if we look to anakin he did use the force and then Qui Gon took him on as a padawan
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
I liked the raw rage of Vader when he pulled down and torn the transport to pieces. This was Force Unleashed's Vader who taught Galen Marek.

I rolled my eyes so hard at Vader's 'The Rise of Starkiller' moment. But I don't understand why he could do that to the fake transport, but not the real transport.

Mamatried wrote:
so I belive it comes doen to USE of the force and thus being detected, if we look to anakin he did use the force and then Qui Gon took him on as a padawan

Qui-Gon took a blood sample from Anakin and had it tested for midi-chlorians after hearing Anakin talk about flying pod racers and Shmi indicating Anakin had special powers.

By the way, I think OBK featured the live-action introduction of the term "Force-sensitive" which I'm pretty sure was just a WEG game term first in 1992.
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KageRyu
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
I just came across a youtube video discussing a thing I have always wondered about.

How come nobody senese Leia being force sensitive and how is the sensing acutlly "done"


I always generally handled it by using the Sense power of the Jedi/Sith doing the actual sensing. I generally only allowed a passive Sense if there was some significant event that would disrupt the local force in any area that a Jedi might detect...such as another being using a force power, extreme loss of life or the death of a powerful force user, etc... I based difficulties on events and the level of the disturbance as affected by proximity.
However, I also allowed Active sensing by characters with the Sense power. I always considered the ability to feel the force and sense it as a part and parcel of being trained in the Sense power. The difficulty for an active sense would be based on how minute or powerful changes in the force, or force power was.
I also did allow Jedi or force trained characters who had the Controll power, who might be aware they were in danger, to try to hide their force aptitude - thus adding their Control die code to the difficulty. Again, I considered this ability an innate aspect of Control as the description for Control is being able to Control the force.

None of what I have just described, however, is reflected in the Obi Wan Kennobi show.
I have mixed feelings about the show...and I wanted to like it... but too much of it seems poorly thought out to me.

I do like the inclusion of Inquisitors (I also liked them in Rebels). I have long had such types in my own SW games from the beginning. Though I rarely gave mine light sabers of their own.
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ThrorII
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThrorII wrote:
So, I've put off watching OB1K, due to my unhappiness with BOBF.

I finally sat down and watched episode 1 of OB1K last night. This is my thoughts ONLY on the 1st episode.

I thought it was pretty good. It captured Ben's depression and lack of hope. I heard a lot of complaints about 3rd Sister, but as of now, she's interesting. The Leia chase was cringy, making the kidnappers look childrens-show level incompetent. Owen was captured well, and you quickly get his dislike of Ben and totally understand why. I do find it funny that out of a million-million worlds, everyone ends up on Tatooine. It's like, hey Jedi, this planet is taken, move along....

We'll see how episodes 2 and 3 turn out.


OK, the family and I sat down and watched 2, 3, and 4 today. Here are our collective thoughts so far:

First, the show is good, not great. There are a lot of strange directorial or editorial, or story beat decisions being made. Episode 1 and 2 were both fairly strong. My kids did point out that little Leia runs like a toddler with a load in her diaper....

1. As of episode 2 onward, the 3rd Sister is coming off as a cartoon-level villain. Not believable or menacing at all. The fam really liked the Grand Inquisitor....until he was unceremoniously "killed".

2. The show has a problem of people and things appearing or disappearing as the plot needs it. In episode 2, Obi is in a gun fight with 2 bounty hunters on the roof top, then when Leia falls, they suddenly stop existing because the scene doesn't need them anymore.

3. The tunnel scene in part 3 (escaping the mining world) had all of us scratching our heads. Two people go in, one turns back, the 3rd Sis is at the entrance.....then all of a sudden, 3rd Sis is at the other end and Imp Officer didn't run in to her at the entrance.....Very poor scene set up and editing. I'm sure we can CREATE a scenario it works out, but we shouldn't have to.

3. A mole-man on a mining planet? What next a Bird-man on a sky planet? He didn't feel Star-Warsy, he felt comical.

4. There were a host of strange directorial and camera decisions in part 4. Obi Wan jumping to hide in plain sight of stormtroopers in an open hall way. Imp Officer gal (Talia?) talking on a mic right next to other officers. Talia taking out an officer 10 feet from everyone behind a wall of apparently sound proof computer panels. Talia's takedown of the 2 Stormtroopers by open hand slapping their helmets.......dang.....The Snow Speeder rescue looked weird, and your're telling me there are not TIE's on patrol, a "ready 1" TIE, or ANYTHING? NOT even radar????? Plus 3 rescued + 1 pilot in 1 Snow Speeder??? Heck Dak barely fit back there....

5. Did 3rd Sis really think a 10 year old who was exposed to the Jedi Underground Railroad just a day or so ago would have knowledge of the entire organization???? Why didn't Leia say she didn't know anything? Why didn't 3rd Sis actually INTERROGATE her, instead of asking the same vague question over and over (My wife leaned over and said, "She doesn't seem to know what she's doing..."). I could buy she's going to torture Leia to cause "force ripples" to draw Ben in (Like Vader did with Luke at Cloud City), but that is not stated or even hinted. It appears she was going to TORTURE a 10 year old child for information she logically wouldn't have.....

I will say, it is nowhere as bad as some are claiming, but it really feels like a first draft and in need of editing. I'd almost like to see a good Fan Edit of it. The Obi-Vader scenes are real good. I don't like the Neon Bright Light Sabers that they are using now.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:37 pm    Post subject: OWK Reply with quote

The moment of truth has arrived. Once you have seen all six episodes of Obi-Wan Kenobi, there is no longer any prejudice possible. You have given the entire series a chance be good, make sense within the Star Wars setting, make sense within the context of itself, and stay in continuity with what takes place before and after it, which is primarily the two Lucas trilogies.

OWK was all over the place. And by that I mean, it was in places it should have been and places it shouldn't have been. It did some things right and some things wrong.

The biggest fan prejudice I encountered for series beforehand was that there was no possible story without breaking canon, because Kenobi would never abandon his mission to protect Luke. That was fully addresses by having Leia in jeopardy, because her safety is the only thing equally as important as Luke's. Obi-Wan having a valid reason to temporarily leave Tatooine? Check.

I didn't mention that in the fifth episode, it made no sense that Obi-Wan would be left alone with stormtroopers while waiting for Vader to come and take custody of him. Even though Reva may have believed that Obi-Wan and her would going to team up on Vader, she should have been smart enough not to totally trust Obi-Wan. The predictable outcome of that circumstance occurred: Obi-Wan easily takes out the stormtroopers and escapes, leaving Reva to deal with Vader herself. And it is dumb that Vader and the Grand Inquisitor didn't just kill Reva for certain instead of just leave her to survive. It's like everyone in Star Wars is now a 60s Batman villain where they always just leave Batman and Robin to die in a cliffhanger but of course they always survive.

In the final episode, that relatively little "Path" ship took a lot of hits while being chased by Vader's star destroyer, long enough for them to have all that dialogue and slow goodbyes before Obi-Wan left it in the shuttle. If that ship was that tough and just as fast as a star destroyer, then why didn't Vader launch any TIEs? That way Vader wouldn't have had to choose between the refugees and Obi-Wan.

The ANH dialogue was not fully adhered to. Obi-Wan totally 'taking Vader to school', making Vader realize he is still "but the learner"? Check. Obi-Wan sarcastically calling Vader "Darth"? Ok, check. "When I left you..."? Not. Obi-Wan left Vader after defeating him. My family agreed that after Obi-Wan kicked Vader's @ss, they could have had stormtroopers come and rescue Vader, so they all escape from Obi-Wan and that way Vader would have "left" Obi-Wan.

Of course Vader could have stayed on his ship and just bombarded Obi-Wan's landing site in the first place like Moff Gideon will destroy Mando's ship. But no, Vader had to go down there by himself and deal with Obi-Wan personally, like Kylo Ben will for Luke in TLJ. By this point in his life Vader should be a little less impulsive than Kylo Rage.

Vader needing to leave and escape Obi-Wan also would have made more sense with respect to Obi-Wan's character. Obi-Wan was horrified to learn that Vader was still alive, and it was his fault because he didn't finish the job Yoda had sent him to do, hopeful that Vader would have just died of his injuries on Mustafar. So it doesn't make any sense that now when Obi-Wan has a second chance to kill the Sith Lord, Obi-Wan just leaves Vader to survive, again, this time with almost certainty because Vader has a star destroyer in orbit. The ending really cheapens the horror Obi-Wan felt at finding out Vader was still alive earlier in the series. Vader should have barely escaped Obi-Wan with his life.

Speaking of which, how did Obi-Wan escape the planet with Vader's star destroyer in orbit?

In RotS, dialogue established that before Obi-Wan parted from Yoda, Yoda taught him how to commune with the ghost of Qui-Gon so Qui-Gon could train Obi-Wan in how to become a Force ghost. But according to OWK, 10 years later Obi-Wan still hasn't had any contact with Qui-Gon, I guess because Obi-Wan had too much guilt over failing to prevent Anakin from betraying the Jedi and becoming a Sith Lord. I don't think that Vader just saying, "I am not your failure, Obi-Wan. You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker. I did" would actually be enough for Obi-Wan to absolve himself of his failure in training Anakin.

Regarding the "battle" at the Lars homestead, I guess Reva not just being able to track Owen and Beru with the Force and take them out easily is explained by the fact that she had not completely healed from the lightsaber wound, but Owen and Beru are crappy shots to miss shooting Reva in the back at short range (when she was lighting herself up in red light with lightsaber). How did they survive all the Tusken raids?

A certain talking head on social media stated over two weeks ago that it was becoming increasingly obvious that the series would become guilty of pulling a 'bait and switch' from the show being about Obi-Wan to being about Reva. Well, he was wrong and that never happened. OBK stayed about the title character until the very end, and Reva wasn't even in the finale episode that much. The actor was fine but I felt Reva was not a very well developed character at all. And after last week, the outcome was still sadly predictable. Meh. It didn't really make sense that Obi-Wan would just trust Reva to keep choosing good, with knowledge of Luke and Leia. It also doesn't make sense that Obi-Wan would finally come to believe that there is no good in Anakin while at the same time having hope that Reva will choose good. To make sure, he should have just kept her there and completed her training to Jedi Knight.

Perhaps OWK's biggest breach to continuity is Leia. She is the daughter of an Imperial senator. In OWK, Leia was a prisoner in the Inquisitor headquarters and she was associated with the underground railroad for Jedi and Force-sensitives. But in six years she'll become an Imperial senator herself. No, it isn't quite as bad as in the EU where Bail Organa was a prisoner on the Death Star before going back to his planet and being destroyed, but still.

They should have had Vader chase Obi-Wan while the star destroyer chase and eventually capture the Path ship. Once they figure out who Leia is, maybe she is taken to Moff Tarkin who says mean things to her before he calls the Emperor to report who he has. The Emperor orders Tarkin to take her to Alderaan immediately with a story that she had been kidnapped by Jedi fugitives and rescued by the Empire. When Takin questions it, Palpatine explains that the Organas are being watched closely but have a purpose to serve. This way, the Empire can convince Bail that they have come to believe Leia was just a victim of the Jedi, perhaps even disavowing Reva as an operative since she is now a wanted fugitive.

The girl that played Leia in this series was perfect. The Owen and Beru actors were great, really seeming like a midway point between their appearance in the PT and the original old actors in ANH. It was a nice touch to see Liam Neeson and Ian McDiarmid in the final episode. Ewan McGregor and Hayden Christensen were fine for their roles, but I found it really odd that the CG was praised for making them young in the flashback. I thought it was awful and painfully obvious that Hayden was way older than the padawan age.

OWK had some cool stuff along the way, but overall I can't add this to my personal canon like I could with the filmic Disney prequels (RO and Solo). Well, that's enough from me for now. What did everyone else think of the series?
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fogger1138
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: OWK Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
The ANH dialogue was not fully adhered to. Obi-Wan totally 'taking Vader to school', making Vader realize he is still "but the learner"? Check. Obi-Wan sarcastically calling Vader "Darth"? Ok, check. "When I left you..."? Not. Obi-Wan left Vader after defeating him. My family agreed that after Obi-Wan kicked Vader's @ss, they could have had stormtroopers come and rescue Vader, so they all escape from Obi-Wan and that way Vader would have "left" Obi-Wan.


I saw a lot of focus on that line of dialogue, but I was hoping we'd get more on the "Obi-Wan once thought as you do" line, since that didn't really play out in Revenge of the Sith. Kinda sad it didn't really happen here either.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: OWK Reply with quote

fogger1138 wrote:
I saw a lot of focus on that line of dialogue, but I was hoping we'd get more on the "Obi-Wan once thought as you do" line, since that didn't really play out in Revenge of the Sith. Kinda sad it didn't really happen here either.

That's a good point about that RotJ line. I think it did play out a bit in RotS, more so if that was their last meeting before ANH. On Mustafar Obi-Wan did plead with Anakin before coming to the point of saying, "Well then you are lost."

But yeah, in this show they had the opportunity to do more for that RotJ dialogue, but didn't. Maybe it could be that Vader was just referring to the fact that Obi-Wan had two opportunities to kill him and didn't, just assuming that it could only be because he still held on to some hope Anakin could return. Or maybe it could be that Vader just lied to Luke as a segue into how that is not going to happen now?

I also would have liked it if they had Obi-Wan suffer some injuries in this show to better explain why it seems like he can barely hold up a lightsaber in ANH. But that is just a wish-list item for the show, not a flaw, because something like that could have also happened elsewhere between this series and ANH. Maybe a Season 2 could address these things.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
How come nobody senese Leia being force sensitive and how is the sensing acutlly "done"

In 2nd ed. (blue Vader cover) it was mentioned that characters with force skills under 6D are not hunted unless directly display Force abilities. Those who surpass this level are automatically targeted by the Empire. It's like TESB scene:
Quote:
- There is a great disturbance in the Force.
- I have felt it.


Quote:
how is the sensing acutlly "done"

I would go for a blood test. Since most citizens were given chain codes such tests could also be made.

Whill wrote:
Speaking of which, how did Obi-Wan escape the planet with Vader's star destroyer in orbit?

I wonder...how long Vader had to wait for being rescued?

Quote:
The ANH dialogue was not fully adhered to. Obi-Wan totally 'taking Vader to school', making Vader realize he is still "but the learner"? Check.

More lessons on the way....

For sure: rule of -1D per each levitated object once more proved to be in need of updating.

And the tough question: how far is this rocky planet where Kenobi fought with Vader from Tatooine?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It remains firmly in the camp of "acceptable entertainment".

Contains a lot of utterly un-suspendable disbelief.

It had a lot of great little gems in it but overall it's somewhere above SOLO and below The Book of Boba Fett.
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