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Ahsoka [Spoilers Allowed]
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 12:09 am    Post subject: Ahsoka [Spoilers Allowed] Reply with quote

This is the new thread dedicated to the Ahsoka series on Disney+. Spoilers are allowed here at any time. Outside of this thread, please see the Rancor Pit Spoiler Policy. Thank you.



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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got caught up tonight. It's "just ok" in my book. We'll see where it goes from here.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And another one SW cyberpunk piece of music added to my playlist after Molrana One Nightclub:
Igyah Kah – Sarah Tudzin

THREEPIO wrote:

Don't be so sure. If I told you half the things I've heard about this
Jabba the Hutt, you'd probably short-circuit.

I am glad they referred to this in one of the scenes. Stress is bad, even for droids. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though it's occasionally a little slow at times, I've enjoyed it so far and think it's well done.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a lot to say about this series publicly. I do wonder if someone who ended up writing this series read this post I made over a year ago in the Star Wars Movies and series thread:
KageRyu wrote:
Disney should call on me to direct. I would drop everything to Direct a Star Wars film. Not for fame. Not for fortune. Because I grew up on the OT and loved it...still love it. I would do everything in my power to steer the franchise back to it's roots. Visually Spectacular, and sweepingly epic.

Sure, I'm a no talent, never heard of, unproven hack...but I got dreams. I have ambitions to make a film that hearkens back to the glory days of MGM! Thousands of extras! Grandiose sets! Millions of dollars over budget! Oh I can Imagine it now...

"Fade-in, a twisted and blackened landscape strewn with debris from countless warships, snub fighters, and ruined buildings. A howling wind sweeps dust and ash through the cold and lifeless debris. Among the wreckage the burned out armor of storm troopers can be recognized. A lone figure clad in black robes enters from right, methodically striding amidst the debris, boots crushing in the ash sounding much like a man walking in snow. A black gloved hand pulls back the robe and pulls forth the hilt of a light-saber, igniting it's vibrant orange blade."
Dialogue/Narrator: (Raspy voice) It's time to sweep away the ashes of the past. The Republic is dead! The Empire is Dead! The Sith are dead! The Jedi are Dead! In a Galaxy Far Far Away, chaos and turmoil reign in the wake of a prophecy fulfilled.


Ok, that's all I have for now... but I have until December 23 right?


but then only took away the orange lightsaber concept... After all, we do know that persons wanting to be writers for Lucasfilm lurk in these forums and fish for ideas. Maybe I am being to self aggrandizing...but I will say, if this was the case, it is a shame that they did not take more from that snippit and I am glad I did not elaborate on the wielder of that Orange Lightsaber or get to the part where he reached a crumbled statue of the "Saviour of the Republic" with the toppled head resembling Luke Skywalker...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:12 am    Post subject: Re: Ahsoka [SPOILERS ALLOWED] Reply with quote

KageRyu wrote:
I do wonder if someone who ended up writing this series read this post I made over a year ago in the Star Wars Movies and series thread... After all, we do know that persons wanting to be writers for Lucasfilm lurk in these forums and fish for ideas. Maybe I am being to self aggrandizing...

I'm used to the SW franchise using my ideas as it has been happening since the 90s. I had something similar to the World Between Worlds concept in my game back in the 80s and have mentioned it on the internet since then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TauntaunScout wrote:
Got caught up tonight. It's "just ok" in my book. We'll see where it goes from here.

For the first time since it started, my family is caught up on this show. If I understand correctly, this week's episode will be the final one of the season. I probably won't get to watch the final episode right away though, so I'll be behind again. Here's some train-of-thought...

The music is composed by the composer who scored a lot of TCW and Rebels, which makes sense since he wrote Ahsoka's theme in 2008, but it is weird-sounding because it feels like he is trying too hard to emulate the style of the original Mandoverse composer.

The live action versions of Ahsoka, Sabine, Hera, and Ezra were all well cast and realized. Their live action character designs and actor performances seem to evoke what I remember as the basic essence of these animated characters, but their physical appearances in live action are far superior to the horrendous giant-eye/knobby-nose/wooden-beard animation that Star Wars has long embraced. Chopper is basically a 3D version of his animated self, but for whatever reason, that totally works for me in his case. The Ghost looks cool (but I still don't care for that detachable shuttle it has). I find myself hoping Zeb appears, but he's a part of the CG budget.

The green-haired but otherwise normal human son of a Twi'lek doesn't make any more sense in live action than it did in animation at the end of Rebels. And I'm starting to become more cognizant that in the PT-era Star Wars alien design had started to rely on lines on character faces/heads that really don't make any evolutionary sense. It is really only to make colored human-looking alien character visually interesting.

Ray Stevenson's new dark Jedi character is interesting and well-performed. I'm sad that that the actor has passed. The dark Jedi's apprentice is meh. Morgan Elsbeth is meh, but I guess her being a Nightsister makes sense.

Thrawn is well realized in live action except that I just don't see him having a big gut. It was so important to get the Thrawn voice actor to portray him in live action, but they couldn't get the excellent Jason Isaacs to play the Grand Inquisitor in Obi-Wan Kenobi? Anyway, I wish we had gotten to see a bit of Thrawn's education as he was updated on everything that has happened in the galaxy since he's been gone.

Cool that they got the current Mon Mothman actor (since 2005), and it was a nice touch to have Kaz's dad from Resistance (same character but new actor different from the animated voice actor). And of course, the one and only Anthony Daniels as Threepio.

I don't remember Ahsoka's droid from TCW but he is ok here. I don't think they have offered any explanation for how this Jedi droid survived to Mandoverse times and how he became a companion of Ahsoka. And they finally used "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" in-universe, but I was disappointed that they made it reference another galaxy, not the Star Wars galaxy.

Instead of a traditional Force Ghost visitation by Anakin, Ahsoka had a vision but was sucked into the "World Between Worlds" dimension where Anakin's Force Ghost was hanging out, I guess so she could "physically" lightsaber battle him and their battle could be physically heard in the real world. Recreating Anakin's animated costume in live action made it painfully obvious that not everything that works for animation works in live action. It was just pure fan pandering to have Clone Wars scenarios in live action. The de-aging used on Hayden Christiansen has improved since Obi-Wan Kenobi, but they still haven't totally mastered it yet, even on lower-res holograms. Even though I personally don't love it, I am happy to hear that Hayden Christensen is getting a lot of love for this return as he never deserved all the fan hate that he got for the PT.

It occurs to me that this show is only about the build-up to Thrawn returning. It will either be a full cliffhanger ending, or "You've only won the battle but not the war" as the Thrawn threat is more fully revealed to the galaxy. It will be lame if we don't get to see any major villainy from Thrawn and anticlimactic if we don't get to see any major good guy victory against that villainy. Last I heard, a Mandoverse movie is still in development so these shows may be building up to that with Thrawn as the Big Bad.

I find this series to be dramatically hindered by the fact that it takes place in the DT timeline. We already know the New Republic will not be seriously hindered by Thrawn's return as things will develop to the rise of the First and Final Orders. This will just be a bump on the road. And this is the second time that Disney canon contradicted TFA by indicating that the Rebellion against the Empire ended at the Battle of Endor rather than one year later at the Battle of Jakku. Abrams established the Battle of Jakku which was already rushing the demise of the Empire to only one year after the Battle of Endor. Then four years later Abrams had Finn refer to the war ending at Endor, and now this show is repeating this contradiction.

And while they successfully wrote Ezra and Thrawn out of the classic era, there still is still a giant gap in Ahsoka's character timeline. This is the third D+ series she has been in, and they still haven't addressed what she was doing from 1 BBY to 4 ABY. Why wouldn't she tell anyone in the Rebellion that she knew the secret identity of Darth Vader? Why wouldn't she seek out and train Anakin's son after he destroyed the Death Star? Did she fear he would turn to the Dark Side? Where was she for five years? It feels like they are intentionally avoiding this because of the can of continuity worms it will open.

And this live action realization of Ahsoka has not done anything to make me think that retconning Anakin's promotion to knighthood to being a mere couple weeks after the terrible pain of his mother dying in his arms just to make continuity room for the Lucas-film-breaking notion of Anakin having his own padawan.

I have said that I try to appreciate TCW and Rebels more by imagining these to take place in a different universe than the live action Lucas films (events similar to the films make have taken place but not exactly as seen). This show is such a continuity cluster-f which makes it very difficult to do that. Even taking out the films as-is, something that makes sense would have to replace it. I feel I could enjoy it more if they just said this was an alternate reality to everything and established what happened differently.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2023 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you about Thrawn's appearance. I doubt the Imperial discipline would have allowed his gut to reach out like that. Obviously he tried to maintain that level of discipline on the Chimaera, but given their circumstances and limited resources, they had to work with what they got. If they get back to Imperial space, they'll be able to rest, restock, make repairs, and trim the fat while taking what they learned and see how it can be applied back in their home galaxy.

I said "if". I was led to believe this was a one-season show like Obi-Wan. I'll hold off on speculations, since we're getting the finale tonight. But one thing is for certain - if there's going to be another season of Ahsoka, then Baylin Skoll is either going to die or be left behind in the finale. Which fate is still speculation. What's not a spoiler is this episode will be Baylin Skoll's last appearance since the actor who played him is dead. Unless they somehow pull off what they did with Leia in TROS - use deleted scenes from the previous movies and add them into TROS.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't notice any gut on Thrawn, and thought the actor did a good job presenting his calculating menace.

One thing that they've raised the possibility of is for there to be (more or less) alternate realities. Filoni already (sort of) introduced time travel to SW. Now they could effectively have different realities to explain differences in the various storytelling they do. I don't think I'm a fan of this, but I've read speculation that this is Lucasfilm's way of undoing the DT without actually undoing it.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My family watched the finale.

DougRed4 wrote:
I didn't notice any gut on Thrawn, and thought the actor did a good job presenting his calculating menace.

The Thrawn actor did a great job with his personification of Thrawn. He has a cool voice, speech pattern, mannerisms, and presence. The actor nailed Thrawn in every possible way except for being fat.

I admit this is totally the Quanta calling the Stifling slimy. His gut is not much larger than mine. But I am not an Imperial alien warlord, genius tactician, and galactic menace. Grand Admiral Thrawn was partially based on Grand Moff Tarkin, and I just can't see either character with a big gut. They are too disciplined.

Quote:
I didn't notice any gut on Thrawn



This gut is not photoshopped. And I think it is totally awesome that you don't notice that stuff. I'd feel slightly less embarrassed by the prospect of meeting you in person some day.

Forceally wrote:
I agree with you about Thrawn's appearance. I doubt the Imperial discipline would have allowed his gut to reach out like that. Obviously he tried to maintain that level of discipline on the Chimaera, but given their circumstances and limited resources, they had to work with what they got. If they get back to Imperial space, they'll be able to rest, restock, make repairs, and trim the fat

But at this point, it would only be possible for Thrawn to trim the fat if the actor lost the gut in real life. Since they were ok with Thrawn being fat in the first place, I can't see that changing in the future.

Quote:
I was led to believe this was a one-season show like Obi-Wan.

This story will continue is some form. Ahsoka may get a season 2, and a "Mandoverse" movie is in development that will cross-over all the shows set in this time period (TM, TBoBF, and Ahsoka so far). I can really see them making Thrawn the big bad of that, which would cash in on the popularity of this originally-Legends character and somewhat address the widespread fan disappointment that they didn't base the DT on TTT. Maybe since Zeb is realized with CG, they need a movie budget to bring him into it.

Quote:
But one thing is for certain - if there's going to be another season of Ahsoka, then Baylin Skoll is either going to die or be left behind in the finale. Which fate is still speculation. What's not a spoiler is this episode will be Baylin Skoll's last appearance since the actor who played him is dead. Unless they somehow pull off what they did with Leia in TROS - use deleted scenes from the previous movies and add them into TROS.

Based on how it ended, they obviously planned to continue his story beyond Ahsoka s1. How they will do it now is still speculation, because we really have no idea what they had planned in the first place or how it will have to change.

DougRed4 wrote:
One thing that they've raised the possibility of is for there to be (more or less) alternate realities.

Star Wars definitely already has alternate realities. The EU and the current Canon universe are two distinct universes in a Star Wars multiverse. Both universes still exist but they do not intersect with each other.

Quote:
Filoni already (sort of) introduced time travel to SW.

Ezra reaching back in time to save Ahsoka and bringing her to his present is definitely time travel.

Quote:
Now they could effectively have different realities to explain differences in the various storytelling they do. I don't think I'm a fan of this, but I've read speculation that this is Lucasfilm's way of undoing the DT without actually undoing it.

And by speculation you refer to disgruntled fan fantasies. There was already a huge fan backlash over an erroneous mass belief that the new Canon universe "undid" the EU, so I don't think Disney wants to even touch the whole Abrams-Trek "time travel creates a divergent spin-off reality without effecting the original reality" thing with Star Wars. There would be a large amount of DT fans disgruntled over the perceived "undoing" even if they don't undo it. They've already announced they are making Episode X that continues from the DT and features Rey, so diverging from the DT in an alternate timeline would be bad PR due to being viewed as a loss of confidence in the DT storyline (which they wouldn't admit to even if true). Also, the current "story group" who is charged on paper with making sure all stories maintain continuity with each other already do almost nothing right now (it must be the easiest job in the world), and this would complicate the status quo.

I've been a proponent of expanding the Star Was multiverse since before the EU officially existed. The cartoons should have their own universe. Video games should have their own universe. Etc. Having multiple universes that they simultaneously make new live action productions for is a pipe dream. So we are left with two universes (but only one currently expanding), and both already being extremely self-contradictory.

As suggested by Lucas, each fan should feel empowered to define their own universe. It is not realistic to expect Disney to separate the DT from other canon for us.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2023 1:20 am    Post subject: Ahsoka Reply with quote

See my October 3rd post above for a general response that hits on some aspects of the series. I didn't take notes on any episodes and I don't feel like rewatching any of it, so I'm just sharing a few various thoughts on the series in this thread.

I didn't mention previously that Sabine had never been revealed as Force-sensitive in Rebels. In Ahsoka, Ezra mentioned she had briefly received Jedi training. I only remember her receiving lightsaber training because of needing to use the darksaber. Is Ahsoka equating lightsaber training to Force-use training? The Force is not needed to use lightsabers (although it may help). And it wouldn't have made sense for Kanan not to have trained her if she had been Force-sensitive, or at least for the show to explain why she was not being trained. It seems this a retcon and they are just trying to use the Jedi Mind Trick on the audience that Jedi training had always there. Somehow Palpatine returned and Sabine suddenly became Force-sensitive.

Here are a few more thoughts after watching the finale...

When I was kid GM, I invented Dark Side zombies that appeared in two of my Star Wars 1e campaigns. It was a cheap way to bring back dead characters (both enemies and allies). The zombies had their previous memories and intelligence, but they didn't have their own free will. They were under control of the female Dark Side Force-using villain who animated them. However, the zombie lives were just like second lives (I think I ruled they had no FPs). The zombies could be killed as easily as they could in their first lives, and once they were killed as zombies they were dead for good and could not be raised again. As a kid, I also had other crazy stuff occasionally appear in adventures like an interdimensional flatworld, parallel universes, godlike aliens, time travel, and even one really abstract adventure inspired by 2001: A Space Odyssey. My players were also teenagers and we didn't have any problem with this at the time, but I've never gone back to any of this. As much as I am still in touch with my inner child, I consider all of that stuff out of bounds for Star Wars now.

The Legends Ewok TV movies and cartoon series had outright fantasy magic. The Disney Canon TCW had outright magic performed by nightsisters, Dooku and Palpatine. Then TRoS made the Force into magic.

Night Troopers are stupid. It seems we have now entered the franchise era where ever production feels it must create a new kind of stormtroopers. Thus, red ribbon troopers. A magic spell making them into zombies who continually reanimate is especially ridiculous. And the nightsisters can also make a magic sword out of thin air.

Thrawn's actions made little sense the final episode. Thrawn was in a hurry to leave, and said it didn't matter if Ahsoka and the other heroes were stranded or dead. A mysterious cargo transfer had to occur before they could leave (cloaked asteroids?), but when it was finally completed, they still didn't leave. Thrawn seemed to keep waffling between leaving and staying to deal with the Jedi threat, when by his own words the problem would have been eliminated if they had just left. Thrawn delaying departure to deal with the Jedi is exactly what allowed Ezra to get on board and hitch a ride back to the galaxy. Thrawn was tactically idiotic.

And why would Ezra come out of the stolen shuttle in a New Replublic ship hanger bay wearing a stormtrooper helmet? It is understandable that he posed as a stormtrooper to get access to a shuttle and leave, but wouldn't he take the helmet off after he entered hyperspace? An incredibly contrived 'dramatic reveal.'

IMO, this show is really no better than the dredge of the other D+ Star Wars (Andor excepted). Do you agree? What did you like about Ahsoka?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:00 am    Post subject: Re: Ahsoka Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

And why would Ezra come out of the stolen shuttle in a New Replublic ship hanger bay wearing a stormtrooper helmet? It is understandable that he posed as a stormtrooper to get access to a shuttle and leave, but wouldn't he take the helmet off after he entered hyperspace? An incredibly contrived 'dramatic reveal.'

Toyetics at work. Same for the red ribbon stormtroopers I feel. Though Hasbro decided not to make much for toys for this series.

I did not like much of anything about this series. I tried. I wanted to. Just as with the other Disney Star Wars. It is clear to me that not only does Disney not understand Star Wars, they have a serious lack of talent and quality among not just the writers, but the directors. The last Disney Star Wars I liked was Mandalorian Season1, and I thought even that could have been much better. While there were a few ideas and scenes in BoBF I liked, that was also a major let down. I did not finish Kennobi, and I was excited they got the actor from Episode III back... but the show was terrible. I did not like Andor as a Star Wars show. I would have been fine with it as a dystopian sci-fi, but it did not evoke the feel of Star Wars for me - so while I do not think Andor was a bad show, I do not think it was a good Star Wars show.

I think there are a few large problems Disney has with Star Wars, and largest among them is that they do not understand it. I feel Star Wars is more than just Blasters, Space Ships, Lightsabers, and Jedi. It's more than throwing around some clever Buzz Words and names, and having flashy effects. Star Wars should be epic stories (or at least deeply interesting ones) about good and evil, right and wrong, with characters both hero and villain that viewers can invest in and care about. It should be equal parts spectacle and substance, with a sense of wonder and awe that is both grandoise and subtle. All of these elements were in the OT, and even though I did not like them, these were in the PT as well. I feel Disney is relying too much on fan bait, cameos, and member berries. This is my partial opinion (I have so much deeper and more extensive things to say, but these days writing for any length is difficult).

I am sad to say - the recent trends in Disney Star Wars have all but destroyed any interest I have in Star Wars at all. I am highly considering not just parting with the remains of my collectibles, but all of my books, movies, DVDs, and soundtracks. Yes, even my D6 items.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see now the paunch that Thrawn has (based on your picture), but I would disagree that he is "fat". If Thrawn was gone for a decade on Peridea, perhaps he ate some of the Noti during his exile. Maybe they had him suck his gut in for his Wookieepedia page. Laughing In any event, I don't think it would affect Thrawn being a tactical genius if he is overweight.

I completely agree about Ezra walking off with the helmet on for dramatic effect. I nearly face-palmed during this moment myself. And the lackadaisical exit also stretched credulity.

I was not speaking of fan speculation, but web content of major websites and their reviews. Doesn't mean they aren't fans or that their viewpoint is any more important, but published articles probably are seen by more people than forum content or fan writings.

I realize - based on how you view things - how you come up with the 'two universes' viewpoint. But I don't think that's the intent of Story Group. Their whole point of maintaining continuity and having things be 'canon' is because they consider there to be an "official" content, and then everything else (Legends, fan writings, even children's content like Goodnight Darth Vader). More or less "true" stuff and "false" (as far as being authentic and what they consider to be what actually happened in their universe). In other words, if there are four different Darth Vaders in published literature (the one who is a separate character from Anakin in the first Marvel comics Annual, the one from Splinter of the Mind's Eye, the one who clashed with Luke and Leia and company many times in the early Marvel Comics, and the one from Goodnight Darth Vader), they don't each exist in 'different universes'. In Lucasfilm viewpoint, there is the canon Darth Vader, and then there are all the other versions that don't really count (as far as their curated content). I don't think they view those as all being in different universes.

So when there has been writers of various websites theorizing that they will do a Trek-like splintering of universes, they are suggesting that there suddenly be two 'official/canon' universes. I also don't think they'll go down this path, like Trek did.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Ahsoka Reply with quote

KageRyu wrote:
Toyetics at work. Same for the red ribbon stormtroopers I feel. Though Hasbro decided not to make much for toys for this series.

Ah, but Disney and Hasbro play the long game. I've noticed several action figures I was surprised they didn't make upon the release of the work they appear in, only to later discover that they released the character in the Black Series that can have any characters from any production years later. It allows them to gage the success of the work and the popularity of the characters better before release. It helps prevent the racks of unsold Snokes I saw in my local stores for a long time after TLJ.

But with or without eventual red-ribbon trooper figures, I still think they just felt the need to create new stormtroopers because Rogue One and Solo did. They will appear in the special magazines, guidebooks, etc. whether they are figures or not. I guess "new trooper variants" has become a Star Wars trope. I don't mind the trope if the new troopers are cool, but red ribbon troopers are just pointless in the franchise and zombies are juvenile.

Quote:
I did not like Andor as a Star Wars show. I would have been fine with it as a dystopian sci-fi, but it did not evoke the feel of Star Wars for me - so while I do not think Andor was a bad show, I do not think it was a good Star Wars show.

I definitely don't like Andor because it has a typical Star Wars feel. It is different. It is dystopian. And it is extremely well made, down to the minutia. I like it because it is a high quality product and still feels like it could take place in the same universe as Star Wars. Continuity-wise, it supports the timeline following the PT and Solo, and it builds towards RO and the CT. I do not enjoy Andor in the same way that I love the epic adventure films that I love, but it is successful world-building.

Quote:
The last Disney Star Wars I liked was Mandalorian Season1, and I thought even that could have been much better. While there were a few ideas and scenes in BoBF I liked, that was also a major let down. I did not finish Kennobi, and I was excited they got the actor from Episode III back... but the show was terrible.

The rest of the Disney+ stuff does nothing to support the films (or even detracts from them). The only other D+ thing I've really liked as a whole besides Andor was TM s1, and I agree it could have been better. It does nothing to add to or subtract from anything else – It is just its own thing.

Quote:
Star Wars should be epic stories (or at least deeply interesting ones) about good and evil, right and wrong, with characters both hero and villain that viewers can invest in and care about. It should be equal parts spectacle and substance, with a sense of wonder and awe that is both grandoise and subtle. All of these elements were in the OT, and even though I did not like them, these were in the PT as well.

Trooper Helmet

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This is my partial opinion (I have so much deeper and more extensive things to say, but these days writing for any length is difficult).

I'm sorry for the difficulty and I appreciate you taking the time to chime in.

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I am highly considering not just parting with the remains of my collectibles, but all of my books, movies, DVDs, and soundtracks. Yes, even my D6 items.

If it is logistically possible, keep in mind the Commerce section of the Rancor Pit for possible looking for new homes when selling Star Wars stuff.
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Whill
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2023 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DougRed4 wrote:
I see now the paunch that Thrawn has (based on your picture), but I would disagree that he is "fat".

Well, according to medical standards I am above "overweight" and into the low "obese" range, and Thrawn is little fatter than me. So we can disagree on the terminology involved, but he is too paunchy to me.

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Maybe they had him suck his gut in for his Wookieepedia page. Laughing In any event, I don't think it would affect Thrawn being a tactical genius if he is overweight.

Yes, the Wookieepedia image is intentionally one as complimentary as possible.

Thrawn's girth may not affect him being a tactical genius, but he doesn't look the part. You could also say, Chewie doesn't really need to be hairy to be a bad-@ss alien sidekick, but would he really look like a proper Wookiee without the hair? No. You could say Jabba could have remained a human as filmed in ANH, but would he really embody the role without being a slimy disgusting blob? No. Did Palpatine have to be all melty-face to be a Sith Emperor? Yes.

The character of Thrawn is too disciplined to look right with a big beer belly.

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If Thrawn was gone for a decade on Peridea, perhaps he ate some of the Noti during his exile.

Yes, we are left with creating fan explanations for things... Chiss have a slight food intolerance to all food on that planet which causes the side effect of extreme bloating. But that only works if the actor gets into a more proper Thrawn-shape for his next appearance in the franchise.

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I was not speaking of fan speculation, but web content of major websites and their reviews. Doesn't mean they aren't fans or that their viewpoint is any more important, but published articles probably are seen by more people than forum content or fan writings.

I've seen them. The writers are either fans or writers who specialize in fanboy-facing writings, regardless of the outlet their opinions appear in. The number of people that see the speculation has little bearing on the fact that their writings have a particularly strong fan wish-fulfillment quality. Unrealistic speculation like this has been rampant since TLJ and hasn't stopped. How many times was Kathleen Kennedy about to be fired? Many times according to these outlets. Fanboys want that bad, because they want to believe that replacing her with anyone else would be an magical fix to make them like Star Wars again.

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I realize - based on how you view things - how you come up with the 'two universes' viewpoint. But I don't think that's the intent of Story Group. Their whole point of maintaining continuity and having things be 'canon' is because they consider there to be an "official" content, and then everything else (Legends, fan writings, even children's content like Goodnight Darth Vader). More or less "true" stuff and "false" (as far as being authentic and what they consider to be what actually happened in their universe). In other words, if there are four different Darth Vaders in published literature (the one who is a separate character from Anakin in the first Marvel comics Annual, the one from Splinter of the Mind's Eye, the one who clashed with Luke and Leia and company many times in the early Marvel Comics, and the one from Goodnight Darth Vader), they don't each exist in 'different universes'. In Lucasfilm viewpoint, there is the canon Darth Vader, and then there are all the other versions that don't really count (as far as their curated content). I don't think they view those as all being in different universes.

Whether the story group currently considers Legends and Canon as two separate universes or not is immaterial. That is what they functionally are. A fictional universe is defined as a setting that a collection of fictional works take place in.

The old name for Legends canon literally had "Universe" in its name, and Lucas, who Disney venerated to he point of canonizing his post-film TCW, laid out before it that there was a Star Wars multiverse. His universe of his films and offscreen continuity for them in his mind, the Expanded Universe expanding from his films, and each fan's universe. Disney's newer Canon universe is a setting that includes Lucas' films, the TCW, and all new Disney "canon" works that expand from them. Legends stories do not take place in the same universe as the current Canon, and Legends stories were overtly described as taking place in a universe, so therefore they are in effect two separate universes. Fanon was never part of the EU and and is still not categorized as Legends.

The Lucasfilm story group still maintains two databases for canon (because they didn't just flush the old one when they made a new one). There are officially two canons so there are officially two universes. For a while after Disney Canon started, the Legends (the EU) was still expanding, albeit much slower. Some FFG RPG materials were designated as Legends. Reprints have already started by the current company and new books for that game will supposedly begin being released at some point. We'll see which canon those as designated as.

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One thing that they've raised the possibility of is for there to be (more or less) alternate realities. Filoni already (sort of) introduced time travel to SW. Now they could effectively have different realities to explain differences in the various storytelling they do. I don't think I'm a fan of this, but I've read speculation that this is Lucasfilm's way of undoing the DT without actually undoing it...

So when there has been writers of various websites theorizing that they will do a Trek-like splintering of universes, they are suggesting that there suddenly be two 'official/canon' universes. I also don't think they'll go down this path, like Trek did.

I was originally responding to what you reported (and I had also seen): the suggestion that they use time travel to undo create alternate realities or somehow undo the DT for a contrary story line. I also doubt they will do that anytime soon. So maybe we agree more than I thought?
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DougRed4
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Joined: 18 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2023 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I completely agree that those many articles were completely fan service; I too would practically roll my eyes at every report about Kennedy's firing. I think some hoped that the more they wished it, the more likely it would be to happen.

I think the crux of where we disagree is the two different universes thing. I think we both agree on the (at least attempted) continuity of their canon line. Where I believe we disagree is that you seem to be saying that there are two, where I am saying there is canon, and then many, many others (which are not consistent with each other).

Perhaps I can explain my position better this way. I agree that there are two categories (any entry on Wookieepedia will give you 'canon' and 'legends'. With the 'canon' stuff, if Cad Bane had his right arm chopped off in a comic book story, then from that point on, his right arm would be missing (or he'd have a prosthetic or what-have-you). There is internal consistency within canon.

On the flip side, with Legends, there are a ton of different stories without internal consistency. Just for argument's sake, let's say there's seventeen different "universes" (if you choose to call them that) or separate continuities. Not two. Thought seventeern is just a number I pulled out. There's far more than that.

If Darth Vader battles Leia (using Luke's lightsaber, which Luke had earlier used to pick a lock) in Splinter of the Mind's Eye, and then Darth Vader is blasted apart (and disintegrates into a thousand tiny pieces) in Lego Star Wars, and then Darth Vader reads a bedtime story to Leia in Goodnight Darth Vader, those three versions of Vader are not from the same "universe". Yes, they're all lumped together under 'Legends' on Wookieepedia, but nobody makes any kind of effort to have them be part of the same continuity.

That's all I'm saying.
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