Dice allocation between general skills and specializations

[Forceally]

For a long time, I've seen stats where we have general skills and specialization skills. General skills would be blaster, starfighter piloting, persuasion, etc. The specializations, as I call them, are for specific things associated with the skills. Examples would be blaster: hold-out blaster, starfighter piloting: X-wing, and persuasion: oration.

Generally speaking, when I see the dice assigned to the skills, the specialized skills generally have higher dice than the general skills. For example, a character would have starfighter piloting 3D and starfighter piloting: X-wing 6D. So here's my question:

The above character example increases his starfighter piloting skill to 3D+1. That doesn't mean that his starfighter piloting: X-wing increases to 6D+1 as a result. But let's have that character increase his starfighter piloting skill to 6D, so it's the same as the dice allocated to starfighter piloting: X-wing. Now, the character decides to increase his starfighter piloting to 6D+1. Is this permitted? Wouldn't increasing the starfighter piloting to 6D+1 automatically increase his starfighter piloting: X-wing to 6D+1 as well? I ask because I don't think I have ever seen a character with the dice allocated to starfighter piloting being higher than the dice allocated to starfighter piloting: X-wing. Starfighter piloting 9D and starfighter piloting: X-wing 6D, for example.

This question applies to all those skills that can be specialized, like persuasion: oration, persuasion: debate, beast riding: rancor, etc. It doesn't apply to the advanced skills like (A) medicine. I know in cases like that, you need to have minimum die code to a skill, first aid 5D in this case, before you can take an advanced skill. And the advanced skill starts at 1D.

[Mamatried]

As I understand the specialization rules the specializations "goes away" when the base skill is equal to the specialization.

So Blaster 5D+1
and a Specialization of Hold out for 6D+1

Once the Base Balster skill is 6D+1 and Equal to the Hold out skill you are no longer specialized.

and the skills now becomes Blaster 6D+1


I do not remember from the top of my head the exact rules, but there are rules as to apply and learn later spcializations, in the case above the Hold out specialization would have be relleanred and become a new speciality skill, there should be rules for this I belive but can not remember exactly where

[garhkal]

Looking in past threads, such as https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1214&highlight=specialty
i mention that

[fogger1138]

According to RAW (2nd R&E at least), the basic skill can be higher than the specialization. The idea that the specialization goes away if the skill is raised above it is not in RAW and is contradictory to what is stated in the rulebook.

PG. 34: "Specializations are separate skills. If a character improves the basic skill, the specialization doesn't improve; if the specialization is improved, the basic skill doesn't go up." [Emphasis mine] There's no exception for "but if the basic skill passes the specialization then it takes over again".

It seems to be a very common house rule to have the basic skill take over if it surpasses the specialization, though, to the point where I think a lot of people think that it's the actual rule.

[Mamatried]

[Whill]

[fogger1138]

[Mamatried]

[fogger1138]

[Whill]

See my previous post. A friendly reminder for all to not ignore my posts. And there are forum guidelines against misrepresenting RAW and presenting your house rules as RAW.

And Mamatried, please run your posts through spell check. You get to choose which dialect of English you want — Just pick one. You have been asked to do this privately several times.

[Mamatried]

[fogger1138]

[Mamatried]

Spirit of the rules.

Joe
DEX 3D
Blaster Hold out 4D

his skills are Blaster 3D , and ONLY when uisng his hold out he rolls 4D

Joe now advances his Blaster skill to 3D+1
His Hold out specialization does of course not increase.

Joe has now 3D+1 in blaster skill and 4D in hold out blaster specilaization.
Joe advanced through a couple of adventures to 4D in his Blaster skill, but doe not advance his Hold out blaster specialization, he now has the following skills

Blaster 4D
Blaster Hold out 4D

Which is the specialization, in what weapons is he "better" a spcializations indicates that you arte "better" in that limited aspecet of the skill.

Joe now advance to 4D+1 in his blaster skill this skill covers all blasters including hold out.
Joew now has the following skills
Blaster 4D+1
Hold out blaster 4D

How is this possible within the rules ?
The lower blaster hld out here can not be rolled, since the balster skill includes the hold out and is now rolled at a higher dice....

Joe's new skill is Blaster 4D+1
with no spcializarions.

Joe sill want to be a hold out spcialist and on his next advancement he advances his blaster skill to 4D+2 and selects Hold out, for the following skills

Blaster 4D+1
Blaster hold out 4D+2

he is now again specialized.

the deabte is a bit silly imo, since the rules imply that the "highest" skill dice is rolled, and when a base skill is higher or equal to the specialization skill then there is no need to use the lower specialization meaking it "go away", as to a narrative the character can still be a spcialist but the rolls will not reflect that until the spcialzatio is rised.

But you can never have a blaster 4D and hold out 3D+1
since the hold out is already covered by the blaster skill at 4D so it will not and can not be rolled at 3D+1, removing the mechanical effect of the specialization.

now they atre spereate skills since they can be advnced seperately (to a degree)

So choosing or later selecting hold out blaster specialization doe not exclude the hold out form the overall blaster skill.

you roll 5D for ALL blaster wepons with a 5D blaster skill. this makes a specialization of 4D+1 not possible, becuse the spcialized weapon is INCLUDED in the overall skill.

the specialization is about focuing on a "part of a skill" not the full skill and as such they advnce differently at differnt costs.

however is the "highest" roll that is used meaning that ALL blasters are rolled at 5D including the hold out (still at 4d+1) making the specialization "mute" until the spcialization is again advanced and they become two skills.

5D blaster is 5D in ALL blasters including any (previous specializations at 4D+1) that is how the skills work and why a character with Blaster 5D and Hold out 5d is not a spcialized character

[cheshire]

I think that we'd all agree that what you say has logic behind it and merit in practice in game.

Sometimes discerning exactly what the rules say help with the nitty gritty a few steps down the line.

Let's take your example:

[Mamatried]