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Using Technical skills for Sabotage
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:51 am    Post subject: Using Technical skills for Sabotage Reply with quote

So, a friend of mine is a very skilled auto mechanic. Today, he treated me to a lecture on different ways to sabotage cars. It was pretty obvious, after the fact, that a person who knows a lot about repairing things will also know a great deal about breaking those same things. However, the official rules for the Technical attribute and skills only mention repairing or improving things. IMO, there should also be rules for sabotaging equipment, either disabling or destroying it, and allowing Tech-biased characters to give into their more mischievous and destructive impulses. Suggestions?
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always figured this was why Buzz droids had 5D in starfighter repair.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps treat the 'repair roll' as damage, versus the hull. Not sure though if scale should come into it.
Though knowing some in my group who have 7-9D in various tech skills AND (A) engineering skills, even with the scale in play they could still get to the heavy damage with ease on a force point.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cynanbloodbane wrote:
I always figured this was why Buzz droids had 5D in starfighter repair.

That was my thinking, as well.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Perhaps treat the 'repair roll' as damage, versus the hull. Not sure though if scale should come into it.
Though knowing some in my group who have 7-9D in various tech skills AND (A) engineering skills, even with the scale in play they could still get to the heavy damage with ease on a force point.

That's exactly why just using the skill to inflict damage wouldn't be realistic. Characters won't automatically be able to access the systems that permit catastrophic damage to be inflicted.

I'm picturing something along the lines of an "anti-repair", in that a character can take a functioning system and rig it so that it no longer functions, and do so in a manner that is very hard to detect before the fact, or diagnose after the fact.
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griff
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A demolition specialty perhaps?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

griff wrote:
A demolition specialty perhaps?

Too specialized. Demolitions is about using properly placed explosives to blow stuff up. Sabotage would be causing deliberate malfunction by reconfiguring or damaging specific components. A good Sabotage roll might produce a Demolitions effect, or a good Demolitions roll could be used to blow up a critical component, but IMO, the concept of sabotage in general is too broad to be shoehorned into a single skill specialty.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Perhaps treat the 'repair roll' as damage, versus the hull. Not sure though if scale should come into it.
Though knowing some in my group who have 7-9D in various tech skills AND (A) engineering skills, even with the scale in play they could still get to the heavy damage with ease on a force point.

That's exactly why just using the skill to inflict damage wouldn't be realistic. Characters won't automatically be able to access the systems that permit catastrophic damage to be inflicted.

I'm picturing something along the lines of an "anti-repair", in that a character can take a functioning system and rig it so that it no longer functions, and do so in a manner that is very hard to detect before the fact, or diagnose after the fact.


That to me incorporates more than just "Anti-repairing", but also Con or Hide, to make what they have done look normal to anyone looking at it. Perhaps it could be based on a set TN, then what they get on their success roll is the 'damage value".

Say making a hyperdrive shut off while ship's in hyperspace is a base 20. Or making the repulsors kick off when the ship is within 30 m of ground/buildings, is a 15. Or a weapon system works for X number of shots, then turns off is a 17..
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
Too specialized. Demolitions is about using properly placed explosives to blow stuff up. Sabotage would be causing deliberate malfunction by reconfiguring or damaging specific components. A good Sabotage roll might produce a Demolitions effect, or a good Demolitions roll could be used to blow up a critical component, but IMO, the concept of sabotage in general is too broad to be shoehorned into a single skill specialty.

I tend to agree.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
That to me incorporates more than just "Anti-repairing", but also Con or Hide, to make what they have done look normal to anyone looking at it.

I don't feel the need to go that far. For starters, Con is more about convincing people of something, which isn't really appropriate here. Hide might be appropriate, but so would knowing the procedure a mechanic might take on a standard systems check, and what they would check and what they wouldn't.

Quote:
Perhaps it could be based on a set TN, then what they get on their success roll is the 'damage value".

But just using a Technical skill to generate a damage roll seems too simplistic. A saboteur is going to have a general idea of the effect he is trying to produce. If the effect causes damage, fine, but I want something with a little more finesse than just using the Tech skill to generate a damage roll. On top of that, there will also be the issue of access. Just because a character with 12D Capital Ship Repair can roll high enough to blow up a cruiser does not mean he can do it effortlessly. Look at what Obi-Wan had to go through on the Death Star just to sabotage the tractor beams...

Quote:
Say making a hyperdrive shut off while ship's in hyperspace is a base 20. Or making the repulsors kick off when the ship is within 30 m of ground/buildings, is a 15. Or a weapon system works for X number of shots, then turns off is a 17..

There would also be a randomization factor, in that the sabotage method used would not necessarily guarantee that a system would work for X number of shots. A dice roll to generate the number would be more appropriate.
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Savar
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Programming a worm virus or such. Would mess a lot of Systems up.

Also programming a droid to do sabotage.

game mechanics for sabotage.
Make a technical skill check with mods. That is the opposed roll to repair the sabotage. With mods based on how hidden the sabotage is to be.
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savar wrote:
Programming a worm virus or such. Would mess a lot of Systems up.

Also programming a droid to do sabotage.

game mechanics for sabotage.
Make a technical skill check with mods. That is the opposed roll to repair the sabotage. With mods based on how hidden the sabotage is to be.


So, what would have been the difficulty on disabling the hyperdrive on the Millennium Falcon in ESB. It was well hidden but simple, as R2 was able to correct it in a matter of seconds. Lets look at an in film example and build from there. I'm sure there were a few other good examples in the pod race in TPM.
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you need to develop a case by case basis for each method of sabotage you intend to flesh out. I think "opposite repair" or something (as in the case of the Falcon's hyperdrive) is one. Then there's the old "cut the break lines" thing where a component fails; there would need to be varying degrees of failure, though, from light to catastrophic, IMHO.

I think Gark's on to something. I think the character rolls the repair skill to affect the sabotage, and then rolls hide to see how detectable it is; a poor hide roll could be caught without effort.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmanski wrote:
I think Gark's on to something. I think the character rolls the repair skill to affect the sabotage, and then rolls hide to see how detectable it is; a poor hide roll could be caught without effort.

The problem there is that, if my mechanic friend's description of different ways to sabotage cars in ways not easy to find is any indicator, it requires extensive knowledge of the vehicle / equipment's own internal systems, and knowing what can be easily detected and what can't. It's not enough to simply say, "Oh, I'll just roll Hide so no one can see it"; you actually have to have the technical Knowledge to know what you can and can't do and how it can be concealed within the mass of different systems in a vehicle.
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Savar
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cynanbloodbane wrote:
Savar wrote:
Programming a worm virus or such. Would mess a lot of Systems up.

Also programming a droid to do sabotage.

game mechanics for sabotage.
Make a technical skill check with mods. That is the opposed roll to repair the sabotage. With mods based on how hidden the sabotage is to be.


So, what would have been the difficulty on disabling the hyperdrive on the Millennium Falcon in ESB. It was well hidden but simple, as R2 was able to correct it in a matter of seconds. Lets look at an in film example and build from there. I'm sure there were a few other good examples in the pod race in TPM.


Well i would say R2 had a much better skill then the slicer who did the sabotage.

Software corruption can be fixed fast with the right skills. Hardware takes the right parts.

You could take a dice penalty to you're technical skill check for the sabotage and the dice penalty you take is the dice you roll to hide the sabotage?
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