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Whill
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 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:46 am Post subject: Re: Rebels |
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I saw the Ghost in a Rogue One trailer but I didn't notice the live-action Chopper or the page for General Syndulla until my second viewing of the movie. Some version of Rebels does exist in my SWU but certain ridiculous things are out (like Ezra cutting through the outer hull of a star destroyer like it was cardboard). Hera, Chopper and the Ghost are my three favorite things from Rebels but I am mostly just relieved that Ahsoka Tano wasn't in any way referred to in the film.
No, in two viewings I never saw the Ghost get shot down or escape to hyperspace.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | There are rumors of a planned Rebels episode showing the events of Rogue One from the perspective of the Ghost's crew. |
I heard, but it seems a bit premature. I am several episodes behind but unless they recently did a big time jump forward in the show's narrative, it should still be a couple years away from Rogue One.
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Whill
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:56 am Post subject: Re: Rebels |
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| Whill wrote: | I saw the Ghost in a Rogue One trailer but I didn't notice the live-action Chopper or the page for General Syndulla until my second viewing of the movie. Some version of Rebels does exist in my SWU but certain ridiculous things are out (like Ezra cutting through the outer hull of a star destroyer like it was cardboard). Hera, Chopper and the Ghost are my three favorite things from Rebels but I am mostly just relieved that Ahsoka Tano wasn't in any way referred to in the film.
No, in two viewings I never saw the Ghost get shot down or escape to hyperspace.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | There are rumors of a planned Rebels episode showing the events of Rogue One from the perspective of the Ghost's crew. |
I heard, but it seems a bit premature. I am several episodes behind but unless they recently did a big time jump forward in the show's narrative, it should still be a couple years away from Rogue One. |
Who's this ghost you keep mentioning??
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Whill
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Saikoyu
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Just saw Rogue One, and god that was a gut wrencher. I cried, I'll admit it.
And actually Whill's sig just reminded me of something. In ANH, Vader is questioning Captain Antilles about the plans. As I see it, after the closing scene, Vader when right back to his ship and jumped after the Tantive. He saw that ship fly out of a Rebel ship with his own eyes. And Captain Antilles is hanging there bald face lying to Vader's face with his dying breath that he's on a diplomatic mission. All I have to say to that is big brass ones. |
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Saikoyu wrote: | Just saw Rogue One, and god that was a gut wrencher. I cried, I'll admit it.
And actually Whill's sig just reminded me of something. In ANH, Vader is questioning Captain Antilles about the plans. As I see it, after the closing scene, Vader when right back to his ship and jumped after the Tantive. He saw that ship fly out of a Rebel ship with his own eyes. And Captain Antilles is hanging there bald face lying to Vader's face with his dying breath that he's on a diplomatic mission. All I have to say to that is big brass ones. |
Watch ANH again. When Leia also claims that she's just "on a diplomatic mission" as well, Vader, who had literally just seen her ship blast off from the Rebel flagship's docking bay, completely loses his sh!t.
| Darth Vader wrote: | | You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor! TAKE HER AWAY! |
It's one of the very few times in the movies we see Vader well and truly pissed off.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:04 am Post subject: |
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That outburst now makes perfect sense!
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | That outburst now makes perfect sense! |
Exactly, this is one of the reasons that Rogue One is so awesome: because it fills in plot holes in ANH that have been bothering people ever since 1977:
1)Why does the Death Star have such an exploitable and catastrophic design flaw? Answer: Because it was put there deliberately by its designer as a form of revenge against the Empire for being forced to build the Death Star in the first place.
2) Why is Vader so uncharacteristically pissed off at Leia when she mentions she's "on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan?" Answer: Because, as noted above, Vader literally just saw the Tantive IV steal the Death Star plans and blast off from the rebel flagship docking bay right in front of him. Leia and Captain Antilles, whom Vader kills in a rage, both lie right to his face in spite of that fact. Vader even partially defeated himself when he killed Captain Antilles, because as captain of the Tantive IV, Antilles likely also knew the location of the Rebel base on Yavin 4! Had Vader not lost control of himself, he also would have had Captain Antilles to interrogate about the location of the Rebel base in addition to Leia and it's more than likely he would have broken before she did. (The ROTJ novelization mentions that Leia had almost broken under Vader's torture and if Luke and co. hadn't come along when they did, the Empire would have found Yavin 4 anyway, but the Rebels wouldn't have had the Death Star plans.) Nice Job Fixing It, Villain!
3) Why is the lightsaber duel on the first Death Star between Obi-Wan and Vader so lackadaisical compared even to the lightsaber battle in TESM (never mind the other movies)? Answer: Because Obi-Wan is an old man who is twenty years out of practice with little chance to hone his skills on Tatooine and Vader has been away from his bacta tank on Mustafar for too long and exerted himself too much when he stormed the rebel flagship at Scarif. He didn't get a chance to properly regenerate before he faced Obi-Wan on the first Death Star.
4) Why was the Rebel attack on the Death Star so feeble that it consisted of only two squadrons of fighters and the rest of the vaunted Rebel Fleet was absent? Answer: Because the Rebel fleet had just gone through the meatgrinder at Scarif. While some rebel ships did get away, most were destroyed by Vader's Star Destroyer, including the Rebel Mon Cal flagship. The entirety of Blue Squadron was also destroyed at Scarif. The only thing that didn't make the loss of the fleet a defeat for the Rebels was that they were successful at completing their main objective of stealing the Death Star plans.
And these are just the filled plot holes I noticed. I'm wondering if there are others I missed.
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Last edited by Sutehp on Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:48 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Sutehp, thanks but this is the one thread you don't have to use the white font color 'spoiler tagging'. This one thread is "spoilers allowed".
| Error wrote: | | unless you are hearing the dialogue perfectly in the first third of the movie, you are kind of lost as to the nuanced plot involving the "defecting" Imperial pilot and his role in the story. At least I was. But I will see it again, without murmuring people in the foreground this time. |
On my first viewing I did catch the defecting Imperial pilot and understood enough of the dialogue to follow the plot, but don't feel bad. I'm a total subtitle/captions guy for movies and dramatic TV. (My only exception is for sitcoms because the captions sometime come before the punchline and ruin the delivery of the jokes.) I think it's safe to say that I've lost a touch of my hearing from the 80+ rock concerts I've been to without hearing protection over the years. I find that understanding certain accents and dialogue during action is less than perfect. I'm already looking forward to RO coming out on blu-ray so I can watch it with subtitles.
| garhkal wrote: | | IF the empire had a lot of those funky new toys, why is it its ONLY now we are seeing them, when in prior films for the same (and later time) they didn't?? |
The real world answer is because they hadn't yet been made-up when the prior films were made. They were newly created for in this movie's production. The movie makers don't have a time machine to go back and add them to the prior movies. I think you understand this. It is quite normal to make new tech for every movie no matter when it takes place. And in light of all Lucas' hated revisions to the classic trilogy, you aren't really suggesting that they revise the films further to add this tech, are you?
The in-universe answer is, it's a big galaxy. I feel it is rather small-minded to expect all the tech, etc available should be in every star system over the course of all the years, so no new retroactive tech should ever appear.
| RedKnight wrote: | | i can even integrate Rogue one with the Old EU if we consider the Death Star Plans were in pieces, Scarif had one part, Kyle retrieved another, the Toparwa rebels retrieved another....then the rebels all split back to their Cells meaning that Red and Gold squadrons were pretty much the extent of the fighter forces present on Yavin. It all lines up ! |
You can integrate RO in that way, and of course you should do so for your personal SWU if that works for you.
That doesn't work for me at all because every additional "piece" of the Death Star plans retrieved elsewhere undermines the dramatic value of RO and now ANH. RO (and ANH) works best for me if it has the only plans, the ones revealing the flaw incorporated into the Death Star by Galen Erson and recovered by his daughter Jyn Erson. The plans the Rebels in RO barely recovered with great sacrifice, transmitted to Leia which gives her Hope, then in my favorite film get put into R2 which leads to Luke which leads to Obi-Wan which leads to Han which leads to the Death Star itself and back to Leia which leads to the Yavin base where a plan of attack is devised. These are the plans we now have two live actions films about, so the dramatic value of those books, comics, video games, etc. just don't matter to me. It is easy for me to let them fade from existence for the sake of RO (and ANH) having the most dramatic value possible. Many Rebels died to bring them this single set of plans with this single flaw they must exploit.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Overwhelming... Still processing... |
| shootingwomprats wrote: | | I agree wholeheartedly. I typically like to spend a day or two before I start talking about a SWU movie, tv show, book, etc. I the movie yesterday morning, so I am still in the processing mode. I will see it again. |
| Whill wrote: | | I just came home from my second viewing. I'm still not yet to the point of being able to rank this movie with respect to the previous seven films. |
Yeah, I need processing time for every new movie...
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Sutehp
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Whill, I know I didn't have to use the white color spoiler tag, but it felt right for me to do so in that post. More dramatic for me that way. 
As for ranking the films, I think I would rank them this way in Ascending order (from worst to best): AOTC, TPM (the only reasons I'm ranking TPM ahead of AOTC is because of the clunky romance scenes in AOTC [that were even worse than watching Jar Jar Binks!] and I think the Darth Maul lightsaber duel in TPM was better than the duels in AOTC), ROTS, ROTJ, ANH (before RO came out, I'd have put ROTJ as better than ANH, but RO makes ANH better), RO, TESB, TFA. (Yes, I know that some people were disappointed by TFA, and even I walked out of the theatre disappointed by TFA but it's since grown on me after repeated viewings.)
As for viewing order for someone who hasn't seen any of the Star Wars movies (I'm told such people supposedly exist), here is my opinion so as to avoid spoilers for the uninitiated: RO, ANH, TESB, TPM, AOTC, ROTS, ROTJ, TFA.
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:44 pm Post subject: Rogue One |
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Ranking the films with respect to each other and suggested viewing order are definitely best as the topics of devoted threads. There is an existing suggested viewing order thread, and I was going to make a new movie ranking thread when more people have seen RO and have had time to let it sink in more.
| Whill wrote: | | Aaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!!! ...So many feels about this cinematic experience last night! |
| wildfire wrote: | | good movie will need to watch again |
| ebertran wrote: | | What a fun movie! ...Loved it |
| Dustflier wrote: | | I absolutely love Rogue One. |
| DirkCorman wrote: | | I loved it!!! |
| shootingwomprats wrote: | | I really liked the movie. |
| Whill wrote: | | RO needs ANH to be complete, RO makes ANH even better, and the conclusion of ANH makes RO's (and ANH's) darkness more worthwhile. A Star Wars movie that does all that where all the main protagonists and their immediate supporting characters all die but is so entertaining is utter genius. |
| griff wrote: | | Totally agree. I was not home five minutes before ANH was in the DVD player. |
| jmanski wrote: | | Holy crap what an emotional ride! Loved it! ...Episode 4 is a MUST see now. |
| RedKnight wrote: | | I loved Rogue One |
| Venlyss_Pnorr wrote: | | I absolutely loved it. Having said that, I would have thought here would be a place I could likely guarantee everyone would feel pretty much the same because - more than any other SW film to date - it plays out like a WEG adventure. |
| garhkal wrote: | | I thought it was frikken OUTSTANDING!!! Loved the plotline, loved the characters, and especially the fights!! |
| Sutehp wrote: | | Just got back from seeing it myself. It doesn't spare the emotional gutpunches, but then, being a war movie about sacrifice, it shouldn't. Definitely a worthy addition to the saga. |
| jmanski wrote: | | The TPK made more emotional impact and showed the devotion of the rebellion. They were willing to die to spread hope. That's how rebellions are won... I must see it again in the theater. |
| Error wrote: | | All I can say is this movie was a love note from ILM... The acting was good and the characters were perfectly restrained... The ending was beautifully tragic and actually moving. |
| Saikoyu wrote: | | Just saw Rogue One, and god that was a gut wrencher. I cried, I'll admit it. |
I mostly just wanted to compile all this here. In such a massive and divisive fandom, I'm so happy to see so many Star Wars fans here enjoy the new Star Wars film so much! Merry Christmas to us!
I loved this "modern classic prequel" that leads directly into ANH, my favorite movie of all time. RO helps to strengthen the link between the prequels and original trilogies. RO supports and improves ANH, my favorite movie of all time. RO is genius. Any lack of action in the first two acts is definitely made up for in the epic final battle.
My first viewing of RO was all the "wow" of the new. In my second time, I either did cry or get a lump in my throat (from the full immersion into the drama of the heroic sacrifice). I think all the Star Wars movies do that to me too at certain points, except for AotC. At this point I still can't rank RO against the other films as individual movies, except that RO definitely exceeds my AotC threshold (meaning RO is better so AotC is still my least favorite of all the films).
My son and I will go see RO with my brother on Thursday, and when we get home we'll watch ANH to complete the story of the first Death Star. I can't wait for my third viewing!
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
| garhkal wrote: | | IF the empire had a lot of those funky new toys, why is it its ONLY now we are seeing them, when in prior films for the same (and later time) they didn't?? |
The real world answer is because they hadn't yet been made-up when the prior films were made. They were newly created for in this movie's production. The movie makers don't have a time machine to go back and add them to the prior movies. I think you understand this. It is quite normal to make new tech for every movie no matter when it takes place. And in light of all Lucas' hated revisions to the classic trilogy, you aren't really suggesting that they revise the films further to add this tech, are you? |
No, what i am tryin to say is that when they do add these new techs in, and its done in a 'prior time spot, it kind of makes the 'further in the future' time spots seem lack luster that they DON'T have all of those cool funky techs....
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | IF the empire had a lot of those funky new toys, why is it its ONLY now we are seeing them, when in prior films for the same (and later time) they didn't?? |
| Whill wrote: | | The in-universe answer is, it's a big galaxy. I feel it is rather small-minded to expect all the tech, etc available should be in every star system over the course of all the years, so no new retroactive tech should ever appear. |
| garhkal wrote: | | No, what i am tryin to say is that when they do add these new techs in, and its done in a 'prior time spot, it kind of makes the 'further in the future' time spots seem lack luster that they DON'T have all of those cool funky techs.... |
In your last post you cut left out the most relevant quote from my reply, so I added it back above. But let me ask, what Imperial tech are you talking about?
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:58 am Post subject: |
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That tank for one. Those in atmosphere fighters for another. Those 4 wing transports.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | That tank for one. Those in atmosphere fighters for another. Those 4 wing transports. |
We never see anyone use a bathroom in the OT either. Does that mean they don't exist in the SWU? It's completely unrealistic to insist that what we see in the films is all there is, and nothing more.
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