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The Last Jedi - Thoughts and Reactions
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn0k-uxfLwE

I found this video to be a great discussion on the tactics seen in TLJ surrounding opening battle sequence.

I had a couple lightbulb moments while watching it...like "Yeah....those bombers WERE all set up to go. Poe WAS tasked with taking out the point defence guns, which suggests the plan that he was blamed for was actually issued bu Leia in the first place."
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn0k-uxfLwE

I found this video to be a great discussion on the tactics seen in TLJ surrounding opening battle sequence.

I had a couple lightbulb moments while watching it...like "Yeah....those bombers WERE all set up to go. Poe WAS tasked with taking out the point defence guns, which suggests the plan that he was blamed for was actually issued bu Leia in the first place."
Mad


The sequel trilogies so far are messy. Storylines are all over the board, no one has any believable motivation, they're formulaic in all the wrong ways. The sequels were like the biggest waste of movie potential I've ever seen. They squandered hugely popular characters, who we were all hungry for more of, on some convoluted "passing the torch" for 4 hours. They handed... something... to a new generation of characters so that they can... do... something. Again. Or something. Now that the new actors are in sole possession of this torch what are they gonna do with it? I just don't get what any of this is actually about. It's all sidelines and side plots and side dishes with no real point. For all that, I rank them above several other films Hollywood makes.

I wish instead of repeating old Star Wars things (it's miniaturized Death Star technology!) they'd repeat the underlying design concepts that made ANH so good to begin with. Stuff like homage to classics, synthesizing the vibe of foreign films, and political inspiration, or commentary on the human condition, that was so subtle most people didn't pick up on it right away.

I just throw my hands up, be thankful for Rogue One, and that the podunk gaming stores have more product in them for SW gamers than even the Disney Giftshop had in 1996.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
Dredwulf60 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn0k-uxfLwE

I found this video to be a great discussion on the tactics seen in TLJ surrounding opening battle sequence.

I had a couple lightbulb moments while watching it...like "Yeah....those bombers WERE all set up to go. Poe WAS tasked with taking out the point defence guns, which suggests the plan that he was blamed for was actually issued bu Leia in the first place."
Mad


The sequel trilogies so far are messy. Storylines are all over the board, no one has any believable motivation, they're formulaic in all the wrong ways. The sequels were like the biggest waste of movie potential I've ever seen. They squandered hugely popular characters, who we were all hungry for more of, on some convoluted "passing the torch" for 4 hours. They handed... something... to a new generation of characters so that they can... do... something. Again. Or something. Now that the new actors are in sole possession of this torch what are they gonna do with it? I just don't get what any of this is actually about. It's all sidelines and side plots and side dishes with no real point. For all that, I rank them above several other films Hollywood makes.

I wish instead of repeating old Star Wars things (it's miniaturized Death Star technology!) they'd repeat the underlying design concepts that made ANH so good to begin with. Stuff like homage to classics, synthesizing the vibe of foreign films, and political inspiration, or commentary on the human condition, that was so subtle most people didn't pick up on it right away.

I just throw my hands up, be thankful for Rogue One, and that the podunk gaming stores have more product in them for SW gamers than even the Disney Giftshop had in 1996.


What I particularly liked about the linked video is that the creator addresses the tactical situation while trying to be fair to the narrative requirements of the story; ie the subversion of the brash pilot bucking authority to save the day. It dovetails nicely with the conversations we've been having in this very thread.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:

while trying to be fair to the narrative requirements of the story;


Very few things in the sequels are actually necessary to the story. It's all sideplots that don't change the outcomes.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
Very few things in the sequels are actually necessary to the story. It's all sideplots that don't change the outcomes.

Seconded. The closest I can compare it to is really poorly written fan fiction. In fact, I've read Star Wars fan fiction that is far superior to the writing in the two sequel films.

And Solo had a lot going for it until they brought back Maul at the end. If I ever watch it again, I'll just squint my eyes, tilt my head to one side and pretend he's Prince Xizor, and that Black Sun just made a hostile takeover of Crimson Dawn with Qi'ra as his double agent.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

And Solo had a lot going for it until they brought back Maul at the end. If I ever watch it again, I'll just squint my eyes, tilt my head to one side and pretend he's Prince Xizor, and that Black Sun just made a hostile takeover of Crimson Dawn with Qi'ra as his double agent.


I don't even know what to think anymore. Seems like they'll let just about anyone with the right connections take a turn at the steering wheel a cultural icon/multi-billion dollar franchise these days.
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RyanDarkstar
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
And Solo had a lot going for it until they brought back Maul at the end. If I ever watch it again, I'll just squint my eyes, tilt my head to one side and pretend he's Prince Xizor, and that Black Sun just made a hostile takeover of Crimson Dawn with Qi'ra as his double agent.


That would have been so cool and definitely a missed opportunity (though I'm sure I'm in the minority when I say I liked seeing Maul in Solo, but I also loved the heck out of Rebels). Reintroducing Xizor into canon would have been much easier to explain and could have opened the door to a Shadows of the Empire-esque series or film.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RyanDarkstar wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
And Solo had a lot going for it until they brought back Maul at the end. If I ever watch it again, I'll just squint my eyes, tilt my head to one side and pretend he's Prince Xizor, and that Black Sun just made a hostile takeover of Crimson Dawn with Qi'ra as his double agent.


That would have been so cool and definitely a missed opportunity (though I'm sure I'm in the minority when I say I liked seeing Maul in Solo, but I also loved the heck out of Rebels). Reintroducing Xizor into canon would have been much easier to explain and could have opened the door to a Shadows of the Empire-esque series or film.


Ryan, yeah, I loved Rebels also, so I had no problem with Maul's cameo in Solo. Not to mention that that one scene brings up the question of what happened to Qi'ra and Crimson Dawn during the events of Rebels since we don't see Maul utilizing any resources from his crime syndicate while trying to corrupt Ezra Bridger. Could Qi'ra have manipulated Maul into getting marooned on Malachor so that she could take over Crimson Dawn in his absence? Could Maul have gotten revenge on Qi'ra after he managed to get off Malachor or did he not bother with her at all because he was too busy trying to seduce Ezra to the Dark Side? What happened to Qi'ra after the events of Solo? Did she ever find peace or did she die without ever escaping Crimson Dawn?

All the unanswered questions that Maul's appearance in Solo brings up makes it too intriguing for me to find fault with it.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just rewatched the chase scene: when Raddus was the only ship escaping the First Order, why wasn't it swarmed with enemy fighters from all of the destroyers?
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
Just rewatched the chase scene: when Raddus was the only ship escaping the First Order, why wasn't it swarmed with enemy fighters from all of the destroyers?


The First Order deployed its fighters, and Raddus retconned them away in order to escape. So we never saw them.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
The First Order deployed its fighters, and Raddus retconned them away in order to escape. So we never saw them.

Raddus retconned them away? What do you mean?
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
Darklighter79 wrote:
Just rewatched the chase scene: when Raddus was the only ship escaping the First Order, why wasn't it swarmed with enemy fighters from all of the destroyers?


The First Order deployed its fighters, and Raddus retconned them away in order to escape. So we never saw them.


You mean those 2 that were the escort for Kylo? What about the rest?
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
TauntaunScout wrote:
The First Order deployed its fighters, and Raddus retconned them away in order to escape. So we never saw them.

Raddus retconned them away? What do you mean?


I'm just making fun of how labyrinthine the franchise has gotten and breaking down the 4th wall whereby the characters can insert their own retcons.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
Whill wrote:
TauntaunScout wrote:
The First Order deployed its fighters, and Raddus retconned them away in order to escape. So we never saw them.

Raddus retconned them away? What do you mean?


I'm just making fun of how labyrinthine the franchise has gotten and breaking down the 4th wall whereby the characters can insert their own retcons.


Guys, c'mon, it's not that complicated. Kylo Ren and his wingmen got to their fighters first (because Ren is just like his grandfather in not bothering to wait for orders and will do his own thing however he wants) and attacked the Resistance fleet (which, per Leia's orders, had just begun accelerating specifically to get as far away from the FO fleet as they could) before the First Order could close in and launch the rest of their fighters. Hux even says to Ren when the latter gets too far ahead of the FO fleet that they can't properly cover Ren from that distance. That's when Hux orders Ren to fall back. It's not that "labyrinthine." Rolling Eyes

Darklighter79 wrote:
Just rewatched the chase scene: when Raddus was the only ship escaping the First Order, why wasn't it swarmed with enemy fighters from all of the destroyers?


Same reason: the Raddus still had her guns and would have killed more than a few fighters since it was still too far away for the FO fleet to properly cover the FO fighters. It would have been far easier for the FO fleet (as well as safer for the FO pilots) to just let the Raddus run out of fuel and then pound her with the FO's fleet's firepower as soon as the FO fleet could get close once the Raddus was helpless. Unlike the Empire, the FO doesn't seem to be in a hurry to throw its soldiers' lives away for no good reason. That, the FO's tendency to be more competent than the Empire in general, and their cult-like fanaticism, is why they're even scarier than the Empire.

All of this is easily inferred just from Hux telling Ren that the FO fleet couldn't cover him from that distance. Again, not complicated.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp, while you're at it, please explain how the Resistance Fleet is "faster" yet does not get further and further away from the FO fleet?
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