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4D+2 vs 5D
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:12 pm    Post subject: 4D+2 vs 5D Reply with quote

4D+2 vs 5D

I came to consider this being a bit hang up on the blasted royal guard dex attribute.

I can not see a value in going 5D vs a more realistic trough training 4D+1 or 4D+2.

I tried it a while and generally I roll higher/better on 4D+2 than I do on 5D, despite the max being 26 vs 30

Anyone have any experience with this?
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I typically find that xD+2 rolls better than the next die code, but I also keep flat modifiers for situations instead of rolling up to the next D:

For instance, 4D+2 skill with a minor (+5) situational modifier turns into 4D+7 in my games instead of 6D+1.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Yes, I typically find that xD+2 rolls better than the next die code, but I also keep flat modifiers for situations instead of rolling up to the next D:

For instance, 4D+2 skill with a minor (+5) situational modifier turns into 4D+7 in my games instead of 6D+1.


WOW, I never thought of that, but yes it makes sense. getting a bonus does not actually increase your skill.
Thanks for that idea
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 4D+2 vs 5D Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
4D+2 vs 5D

I came to consider this being a bit hang up on the blasted royal guard dex attribute.

I can not see a value in going 5D vs a more realistic trough training 4D+1 or 4D+2.

I tried it a while and generally I roll higher/better on 4D+2 than I do on 5D, despite the max being 26 vs 30

Anyone have any experience with this?



The average of 4D is 14. With the modifier, the average is 16.

The average of 5D is 17.5

5D should still be better!



But, your minimum damage is higher with 4D+2.

4D+2 = 6 minimum damage.

5D = 5 minimum damage.

Plus, because it is a lot harder to roll all 1's with 5D than it is 4D, you'll score minimum damage more often with the 4D+2 weapon.


We're pulling hairs on a tick, here, though. The chance to roll all 1's (or all 6's) on 4D or 5D is a fraction of 1% of the time.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Wajeb.

Average D6 Rolls (when the Wild Die is 2-5)
. 3.5 1D
. 4.5 1D+1
. 5.5 1D+2
. 7.0 2D
. 8.0 2D+1
. 9.0 2D+2
10.5 3D
11.5 3D+1
12.5 3D+2
14.0 4D
15.0 4D+1
16.0 4D+2
17.5 5D

If you roll all 1s, the only advantage the 4D+2 has over 5D is the minimum result being 1 higher (no matter which Wild Die 1 option you use). You can see the average result is 1.5 higher (and the max is higher). Statistically, 5D is better than 4D+2 except for a very rare circumstance.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While the math certain seems to favor the 4d+2 over 5d, most every gamer i've played with would rather the 5d to roll than 4d+2..
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
While the math certain seems to favor the 4d+2 over 5d, most every gamer i've played with would rather the 5d to roll than 4d+2..


How does the math favor 4D+2 over 5D again?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
garhkal wrote:
While the math certain seems to favor the 4d+2 over 5d, most every gamer i've played with would rather the 5d to roll than 4d+2..


How does the math favor 4D+2 over 5D again?

Yes, garhkal. You literally ignored my post above yours. The math does not favor 4D+2 over 5D.
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thedemonapostle
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Average D6 Rolls (when the Wild Die is 2-5)
. 3.5 1D
. 4.5 1D+1
. 5.5 1D+2
. 7.0 2D
. 8.0 2D+1
. 9.0 2D+2
10.5 3D
11.5 3D+1
12.5 3D+2
14.0 4D
15.0 4D+1
16.0 4D+2
17.5 5D



i have called this the law of averages in my games. comes in handy when helping players decide between things.
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ZzaphodD
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'A real rpg:er' should know that the average of a D6 is 3,5, which is higher than 2. Hence always go for the full D when building skills. Wink
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nuclearwookiee
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another way to look at this, 1d6 only has a 1 in 6 chance to roll worse than 2. It also has a 1 in 6 chance to roll the same. But it has a 4 in 6 chance to roll better than 2. So a +2 should out-perform 1d6 only one time in six.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
garhkal wrote:
While the math certain seems to favor the 4d+2 over 5d, most every gamer i've played with would rather the 5d to roll than 4d+2..


How does the math favor 4D+2 over 5D again?

Yes, garhkal. You literally ignored my post above yours. The math does not favor 4D+2 over 5D.


You yourself showed it does for the minimums.. Both 4d+2 and 5d have a 1 on the wild, which takes it out and the other highest die (also a 1), the 4d+2 still has a 4 min, while the 5d has only a 3 min.. No ones on the wild (so its a 2), and the 4d+2 gets a 7 vice 6..
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
You yourself showed it does for the minimums.. Both 4d+2 and 5d have a 1 on the wild, which takes it out and the other highest die (also a 1), the 4d+2 still has a 4 min, while the 5d has only a 3 min.. No ones on the wild (so its a 2), and the 4d+2 gets a 7 vice 6..


But...

While that actual miminum for 4D+2 is higher than that for 5D, the chance of rolling either is much less than 1%. Not close enough for piratical purpose.

And, as you add dice, the distribution flattens towards the middle, which means 5D will roll closer to 17.5 more often than 4D+2 rolls closer to 16.

There will be more swing in the 4D+2 roll (a little more swing), while 5D will be consistently closer to the average of 17.5.

Thus, 5D is still better.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've give you that point..
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Argentsaber
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
Raven Redstar wrote:
Yes, I typically find that xD+2 rolls better than the next die code, but I also keep flat modifiers for situations instead of rolling up to the next D:

For instance, 4D+2 skill with a minor (+5) situational modifier turns into 4D+7 in my games instead of 6D+1.


WOW, I never thought of that, but yes it makes sense. getting a bonus does not actually increase your skill.
Thanks for that idea

For that matter, when creating a die pool from say fire control 2D+2 and gunnery 4D+2, you should be rolling 6D+4, not 7D+1. You only increase by pips when doing combined fire (like capital ship battery fire etc.) or similar situations.. in general you just add the dice up and then add the "plusses."
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