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Initiative and Combat
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:

In particular, it says: "the reaction skill is in effect for the rest of the round and it replaces the original difficulty number."


Yes, but it doesn't say it replaces ALL the difficulties, no matter how you are attacked.. As i showed, both the brawl and melee parries, say they are effective against one OR the other at a time.

And the whole "it can map a jedi to death if you have enough opponents" is exactly how the films seem to portray it.. Notice when we had order 66, those jedi who got killed were often OVERWHELMED with opponents. Plus on this site, many of those threads discusing counter-jedi tactics, DO go on about overwhelm them with attackers..
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. Thats what combined actions are for.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
But to ME it defeats the spirit of the rules. It's kind of annoying when players run around with (for example) weapons drawn "just in case" or the sleep in their armor "just in case."

Yeah, homey don't play that. In my game, walking around with weapons drawn is going to attract aggression and law enforcement attention that wouldn't have occurred with weapons holstered, so my players quickly learn they can't get away with that. And I flat-out deny characters the ability to sleep in most armors, unless they are floating in zero g. Otherwise they are too uncomfortable to sleep in, so the character would eventually suffer penalties for lack of sleep.

Naaman wrote:
I am basing it off the following..
Page 39(-40)
R&E wrote:
Brawling parry is a reaction skill, used to avoid being hit by a brawling OR melee combat attack.
...
Lighsaber can also be used as a reaction skill to parry brawling, lightsaber and melee attacks. Jedi can also use it to parry blaster bolts.
...
Melee parry is the reaction skill used if a character has a melee weapon, and is attacked by a melee combat, brawling or lightsaber attack.

garhkal wrote:
Naaman wrote:
In particular, it says: "the reaction skill is in effect for the rest of the round and it replaces the original difficulty number."

Yes, but it doesn't say it replaces ALL the difficulties, no matter how you are attacked.. As i showed, both the brawl and melee parries, say they are effective against one OR the other at a time.

If I understand his argument correctly, I agree with garhkal on this point. The above quote is from R&E p.79, and right under it refers to the Combat and Injuries chapter "for a complete explanation". That's on p.89-90. The last tan paragraph in the left column of p. 90 states:

Quote:
When using a reaction skill, the character makes a skill roll. (Don't forget to add the penalties for multiple actions.) The roll is the attacker's new difficulty number. (This difficulty number is in effect for all attacks of that type made against the character for the rest of the round.)

The italics in the last quoted sentence above are the original printed emphasis, not mine. I do think that the wording could be a bit more explicit (defining "type" better), but even though the lightsaber skill can be used to parry multiple attack types (brawling, lightsaber, and other melee weapons), I still do not doubt that the author's intention is for a Lightsaber reaction roll against a Lightsaber attack to not also apply to other melee weapon attacks, or brawling attacks the rest of the round. A character wanting to parry multiple attack types in the same round would still have to make multiple reaction rolls (with further MAPs). The same would apply to brawling and melee (and defecting blaster bolts) reaction skill roles - One for each type of attack.

In 1e each reaction roll only applied to a single attack, so 2e making it one reaction roll for each attack type is still in the spirit of not MAPping characters to death. And most of the time characters will only be attacked with one attack type in any given round, and almost never more than two types. In blue Vader 2e, it was like R&E except a player could chose to base difficulty or the reaction roll, but I think that was removed in the spirit of not bogging down play.

garhkal wrote:
And the whole "it can map a jedi to death if you have enough opponents" is exactly how the films seem to portray it.. Notice when we had order 66, those jedi who got killed were often OVERWHELMED with opponents. Plus on this site, many of those threads discusing counter-jedi tactics, DO go on about overwhelm them with attackers..

Naaman wrote:
No. Thats what combined actions are for.

In RotS the Jedi being overwhelmed by clone troopers after Order 66 are each only defending against one attack type, so I agree with Naaman that the best game interpretation for what is happening on screen is combined actions.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

If I understand his argument correctly, I agree with garhkal on this point. The above quote is from R&E p.79, and right under it refers to the Combat and Injuries chapter "for a complete explanation". That's on p.89-90. The last tan paragraph in the left column of p. 90 states:

Quote:
When using a reaction skill, the character makes a skill roll. (Don't forget to add the penalties for multiple actions.) The roll is the attacker's new difficulty number. (This difficulty number is in effect for all attacks of that type made against the character for the rest of the round.)

The italics in the last quoted sentence above are the original printed emphasis, not mine. I do think that the wording could be a bit more explicit (defining "type" better), but even though the lightsaber skill can be used to parry multiple attack types (brawling, lightsaber, and other melee weapons), I still do not doubt that the author's intention is for a Lightsaber reaction roll against a Lightsaber attack to not also apply to other melee weapon attacks, or brawling attacks the rest of the round. A character wanting to parry multiple attack types in the same round would still have to make multiple reaction rolls (with further MAPs). The same would apply to brawling and melee (and defecting blaster bolts) reaction skill roles - One for each type of attack.


Thanks for the back up Whill.. And that Itallicised "TYPE of attack" is why so many GM's ive played with, ruled shooting them with a blaster, and shooting them with say a flamer or fire arm, constitute THREE different types of attack, thus 3 dodges/parry rolls...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
And that Itallicised "TYPE of attack" is why so many GM's ive played with, ruled shooting them with a blaster, and shooting them with say a flamer or fire arm, constitute THREE different types of attack, thus 3 dodges/parry rolls...

GMs throwing three different types of attacks in one round just to make PCs have to make multiple parry rolls are probably evil GMs.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaaahhh! Good catch.

I have no critique of the interpretation in light of the new information. But I still feel like there is way too much room to interpret the spirit of the rules the way that I do: by garhkal's interpretation, it is harder to "parry" a punch and a lightsaber than to parry a million lightsabers.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

GMs throwing three different types of attacks in one round just to make PCs have to make multiple parry rolls are probably evil GMs.


Well, in a # of the threads we've had about how to Deal with jedi, that's often one of the main points raised. HIT them with multiple attacks, of different types, to ween their dice down with MAPS..
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