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Darklighter79
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Joined: 27 May 2018
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 Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Yes, apparently they were willing to take this risk instead of another internal disputes.
Still I am trying to figure out the timeline of RoT and Jedi knowledge about this in the context of a given time frame.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Darklighter79 wrote: | | Still I am trying to figure out the timeline of RoT and Jedi knowledge about this in the context of a given time frame. |
It's a good question. In TPM One Jedi Master says the Sith have been extinct for a millennia, but Yoda refers to the Rule of Two with the word "always" after Mace Windu says there was no doubt the Sith have returned. When did the Jedi learn about the Rule of Two? These are the Wookieepedia passages about the timeframe from the two Rule of Two articles.
| Legends wrote: | | For nearly 1,000 years, the Sith watched and waited, destabilizing the Galactic Republic whenever opportunity arose without revealing themselves. Around 188 BBY, during the Dark Jedi Conflict, Kibh Jeen warned the Jedi that the Sith had survived and were operating utilizing the Rule of Two, though his warnings were mostly ignored or passed off as the rantings of a madman. |
So it seems that in Legends the Jedi learned about of Rule of Two in 188 BBY, but most didn't believe the Sith still existed. That sounds weird to me.
| Canon wrote: | | Bane took an apprentice of his own and passed on his knowledge while establishing the new Sith way of pursuing power and revenge against the Jedi through manipulation and subterfuge. The Jedi became aware of Bane's philosophy and Bane was defeated. Although historical records weren't accurate, it was considered possible that Bane was killed by his own apprentice. In either case, the Jedi went to falsely believe that they had destroyed the Sith forever. However, Bane's plans continued through his apprentice, allowing the Sith to survive secretly for years while planning their revenge against the Jedi Order. |
So it seems that in Canon, the Jedi learned about Bane's Rule of Two back in the time of Bane, and then erroneously believed that the Sith were destroyed. It still includes the same presumption that the only way the Sith must have survived through the centuries is through the Rule of Two, but the canon version still make a little more sense to me.
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | So it seems that in Legends the Jedi learned about of Rule of Two in 188 BBY, but most didn't believe the Sith still existed. That sounds weird to me. |
Indeed strange, especially in the statement made by Ki Adi Mundi.
There was also another important quote "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge." - suggesting Sith existence was kept secret from the Republic and Jedi.
| Whill wrote: | | It still includes the same presumption that the only way the Sith must have survived through the centuries is through the Rule of Two, but the canon version still make a little more sense to me. |
So the RoT came to be at the dawn of the Sith by the one of the last of them. Yet Yoda's "always" seems to be implying much longer tradition. rather than last resort, deperate tactics to reorganize this ancent order of evil.
Still, I am thinking about the Tragedy of Darth Plageuis. Is it just a story Papli only knew? Or maybe it was a true legend that even Jedi Masters knew?
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RyanDarkstar
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Location: Chambersburg, PA, USA, Earth
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:39 am Post subject: |
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I always figured Yoda and Windu's perception of the "Rule of Two" was simply their assumption that the Sith followed the same master-apprentice code as the Jedi did. When I read about the Darth Bane "Rule of Two" hooey, I simply shrugged and continued with my own head-canon. Less convoluted that way, I say.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Or the Jedi may have gathered up just enough evidence over the centuries to get a general premise of how the Sith hierarchy functioned.
And really, Rule of Two isn't all that dumb, as in practice, the Sith hierarchy wasn't limited to just those two. There are always hints in the EU of other Force-sensitive underlings, but the Apprentice was always the Heir Apparent to the Master, and it was a given that at some point, the Apprentice was going to try to kill the Master and take his place. But if said Apprentice failed and was killed, the Master would need a new Apprentice, and having a ready stock of Force Sensitive underlings would simplify the recruiting process.
So it's not so much that the Rule of Two was a literal description of the entire Sith organization, but more a description of the upper hierarchy of the Order, with the Master at the top, and a single Apprentice with whom the Master shared the deepest mysteries of the order, all over a squabbling mess of ambitious underlings scheming (usually in vain) to replace the Apprentice. What little the Jedi did know about the modern Sith and the Rule of Two probably came from underlings that did manage to get captured, but the Sith organization was sufficiently compartmentalized that the Jedi couldn't penetrate into the inner layers of the Order.
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RyanDarkstar
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Sounds reasonable, CRMcNeill.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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I like CR's description, but I also took it, when the Sith was larger (like the TOR/Galactic Cold War era), that Masters only took a single Apprentice; it created lineages within the Sith organization, so Darth Bob's line would not necessarily be the same as Darth Sally's.
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | What little the Jedi did know about the modern Sith and the Rule of Two probably came from underlings that did manage to get captured, but the Sith organization was sufficiently compartmentalized that the Jedi couldn't penetrate into the inner layers of the Order. |
"Modern" means till 1000 BBY, as they were considered extint after that period and waiting to be "revealed to the Jedi"..?
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