Here's a good one:"Sell me on Playing" says player

[Zarm R'keeg]

The NPC from the Introductory Adventure Game? We had the guy in the earliest days when I interpreted a Heroic First Aid roll to be capable of reviving a dead character (I was young )- he died, like, twice per adventure. Fallon repeatedly brought him back.

And hey- Lepi are tough! Powerful leg muscles, a rocket-rabbit kick- they take no guff from no one- and no space carrots, either!
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Star Wars: Marvels, the audio drama: www.nolinecinemas.com

Hard core OT, all the way!

[Bren]

[Fallon Kell]

[Zarm R'keeg]

[Fallon Kell]

[Bren]

[Zarm R'keeg]

See, this is what I get for skimming. Well, if you can figure out something to heal the morally wounded, my group could certainly use that, too...
_________________
Star Wars: Marvels, the audio drama: www.nolinecinemas.com

Hard core OT, all the way!

[Ankhanu]

I've generally played mixed Jedi/non games, and they work out fine, for the most part. That said, this guy comes off as a bit of a douche Be prepared for issues with him actually BEING a Jedi. Guess he'll learn quickly what darkside points are

As others have mentioned, Jedi, starting out, are more liability than boon; especially in a dark times game. The Judi Purge and subsequent Jedi Hunt make being a Jedi dangerous, outside of the normal low attribute liability... people want you dead by virtue of you existing Add in the difficulty of finding and convincing a teacher (and the resulting cost of increasing Force Skills), this guy will likely discover that being Jedi isn't all he'd hoped and dreamed. If you want to be kind, you could point this out to him Sometimes being able to manipulate minds, lift things from a distance and swing around a lightsaber (something he'll need a good background to have from the start) makes you a target.
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[Grimace]

It's players like the type descibed that I DON'T let play a Jedi, simply because I know they will not be able to play a Jedi correctly. He'll run it like a "flashlight swinger" and do a bunch of stuff that's very un-Jedi-like and then complain like the dickens if he gets a Dark Side Point.

As far as how you sell a player...

Tell them that this isn't like Star Wars Galaxies, it isn't like the Force Unleashed video game, and it's not at all like D20 Star Wars. D6 offers any and all character types the ability to be great.

Ask the player that thinks Jedi are so great if Han Solo was a Jedi?
What about Lando? Or Wedge?

Let them know that there are a thousand thousand worlds out there with trillions of people and aliens on them, and during the time period that is being played NONE of them are Jedi and the galaxy is still a wild, dangerous, and adventurous place. Crime lords, scouts, bounty hunters, gamblers, scavangers, fighter pilots, smugglers, and ex-military types are all capable of having amply exciting adventures and accomplishing daring and amazing feats of heroism.

I would suggest that if his Jedi either gets killed (likely) or if his character falls to the Dark Side (probably equally as likely) that you DON'T let him play another Jedi character. And certainly don't let him play a dark side character!

These are the players that have to learn that not everything revolves around Jedi and there are plenty of opportunities for adventures without the need of a Jedi.

[Naaman]

I know this thread is old, but I just wanted to suggest perhaps making a good master readily available from the start. Use the master to teach the player how to play a Jedi. Making it too difficult to start out is not going to make him any more interested in playing. Also, if he doesn't want to play, why "sell him"?

One way around the frustration is to start as merely Force sensitive and learn the Force skills from a knowledgable source as you go, or just take one Force skill, rather than all three (like the young Jedi template, for example).

[Whill]

[vanir]

even players that have played a little WEG SW elsewhere are sometimes certain about some conclusions like this, such as a PC party can only be either all Jedi or completely non-Jedi, if you have non-Jedi PC with a Jedi PC in the party all other players get bored being useless or their PCs get killed.

I've tried discussions ad nauseum but when somebody is sure about something it's a brick wall to bang your head on. And even if you can get them to play in a mixed PC group the apathy of some brings everyone down and they miss dozens of opportunities to outshine other PCs with conventional template specialities and player creativity.

Sometimes it's easier to run them through a couple of 5-10min gameplay scenarios to show them. These kind of impressions are generally gained by a limited imagination for SWRPG, the only way they can imagine a combat scenario is when duellists announce themselves and stroll onto a field of battle openly.

We've had several dark Jedi in our regular gaming. And sure all things being equal, facing a non-Jedi PC at similar CP total in an open duel is a losing proposition. That's not how you fight a Jedi.
GMs and Players alike tend to get complacent when the action starts and lose all immersion, thinking only in terms of stat sheets and RAW. That's not how you play an RPG.

When I'm GMing dark Jedi I find them taken down often unexpectedly in mundane combat with non-Jedi PCs they really should be carving a path of destruction amongst...if you believed all the hype. But it is hype you know.

First Jedi are often outnumbered in combat, no problem because they're so powerful in open melee. But it means while the dark Jedi engages one party member with his first attack, a second and third are circling to his flanks. Say one of them has high dice in Sneak/Hide skills, has tailored equipment to make the most of this, and always moves apart from the group as a concealed scout, as military SOP because the players have had a little training and realise most combat preparation happens outside of combat. You're talking about an NPC getting flanked by someone who didn't particularly stand out in the first place and whose template construction and equipment is essentially specialised for this exact job. Throw in making that PC a tough alien and you've easily got a dead dark Jedi. And it's not just that, there's area effect weapons, coordinated PC combat actions, controlling the combat environment, all of which can and typically do in our games...overwhelm your typical midrange dark Jedi who should, according to most Players, utterly destroy virtually any non-Jedi PC group without even trying.

But GMs and Players alike forget. The Player says "I do this" and sometimes it is a given that the NPC is aware. That's not the case, you have to roll for that. Or because there are basic, common Jedi powers which counter most basic combat tactics making Jedi seemingly impervious to conventional attack, people forget you still have to MAP maybe a dozen Force power uses within the first couple of combat rounds to use them.

Let's look at our NPC dark Jedi, I throw them at PC parties at around 4D Force skills and they look very very scary, but to act like a superhuman Jedi I need to MAP combat sense, lightsabre combat and an attack and you just can't do it within a round or two.
The reality is when fighting most Jedi, unless they are high dice in skills, hundreds of CP in advancement perhaps thousands, they just can't MAP powers/skills/actions within a few combat rounds to act like the superhuman Jedi Knights you see in the movies.

In fact I find when I throw dark Jedi NPCs at the party, even fairly powerful ones they generally have to concentrate on doing one or two things at a time or they just become a stumbling clown. To keep them looking tough and imposing to the PCs you really have to keep their MAPs down and try to get the PCs to play their game and not use very intelligent tactics.
And what actually winds up happening is dark Jedi NPCs I expect to use as recurring villains, get hacked to pieces by the PC party on the first encounter anyway, no matter what I try. I'm pretty much at the point where I'm going to take what I think is good dark Jedi stats and just double it from now on, because the poor buggers can't survive the SWU

Although the point there is that I applaud my PC group for their use of smart tactics, great character sheet mining for intelligent skill uses capable of putting powerful NPCs at a great disadvantage. They can and do carve up Jedi using mundane characters, tactics and equipment because we manage to keep immersion.

For space it's better to give a non-Jedi combat example of what I'm really talking about here, a starship combat example is much simpler but it is precisely what I'm talking about.
Most GMs inform the Players that their ship is being attacked by TIE fighters. Okay that's fine but immersion is forgotten. The players say, Oh we're being attacked by TIE okay, I shoot at them and manoeuvre.
Shoot at what? Why is the GM giving the PCs a God's eye view of the combat? They can only see outside the viewports of the ship, and the limit of vision for a tiny fast moving non-reflective object is a few space-units at best, if those TIE are firing from medium gun range you won't even know what hit you.
There must be a passive alarm on starships which alerts pilots that a fire control computer is locking them for weapons fire.
So the players do not "get attacked by TIE". What actually happens is the players are flying nonchalontly and suddenly a weapons fire warning alarm goes off in the ship. OMG what do we do now? What is shooting at us? Where is it? What type of weapon? What are the PC actions at this point? Man the gunports? You'll want to track targets on the sensors so the fire control computers can lock them. Are they using ECM to counter this? How professional/well trained is the attack?
You follow? Suddenly with good RPG even a TIE is deadly. When Players or GMs complain that any character or threat cannot be combated or is too easily combated, it's either apathy or loss of immersion because it's not about statistics and RAW. It's about tactics and creativity to solve problems. Statistics and RAW is just functionality.

Non-Jedi PCs can most definitely carve up dark Jedi NPCs under strict RAW and logical House rules expansions of RAW. Ours do it all the time.