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New Movement Skill
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
I have used a set difficulty for dodging incoming fire rather than an opposed roll for several years. I find it works very well and mirrors reality a lot more.

I also give the dodge roll bonus dice based on the available cover nearby.


So a pc with 4-5d in dodge, can more often than not (with cover and other bonuses added in) consistently be MISSED by someone shooting them with 7-8d in blaster?
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CRMcNeill
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
The thing about adding new skills like this is skill bloat. Why have a new skill when the Running skill is already in the game? Heck, I like no movement skill at all--just do a DEX check on those rare times when needed--as we do in First Edition.

Players have a limited resource in skill dice when they create their characters. Having two skills for movement seems counter-productive to me.

Go back and read the entire description, especially the note at the bottom where it says this skill is a combination of Dodge and Running, as a replacement, not as in-addition-to.

We should get you a rubber stamp that just says "1st. Edition did it better." It'd save time.
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Whill
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 5036
Location: Columbus, OHIO, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
The thing about adding new skills like this is skill bloat. Why have a new skill when the Running skill is already in the game? Heck, I like no movement skill at all--just do a DEX check on those rare times when needed--as we do in First Edition.

Players have a limited resource in skill dice when they create their characters. Having two skills for movement seems counter-productive to me.

Go back and read the entire description, especially the note at the bottom where it says this skill is a combination of Dodge and Running, as a replacement, not as in-addition-to.

We should get you a rubber stamp that just says "1st. Edition did it better." It'd save time.

Wajeb, this is combining Running and Dodge into a single skill. So this is more like 1e except that that instead of rolling base Dex for movement, you roll the dodge skill (renamed Agility). So this one skill is replacing two 2e skills.

2e made a lot of skills for things that were just base attribute in 1e. That isn't skill bloat if the ability should be able to be raised above the base attribute. Splitting skills up into multiple skills is often skill bloat, and 2e did do a lot of that. The concept behind combining these skills is that all other movement skills use the same skill for moving and for dodging. Swimming, Repulsorlift Operation, etc. But for moving your body on your feet, in 2e there are two separate skills for that? That makes no sense to me.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
We should get you a rubber stamp that just says "1st. Edition did it better." It'd save time.


Dude. Do you really have to be so snarky all the time?

Learn to listen to dissenting opinions--not just fly off the handle when people don't agree with you.

Whill: I did read that, but I don't think the skill needs any tweaking, either.
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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the military, you know someone likes/respects you when they make you the target of the MOST offensive jokes/remarks.

I sense there is something similar going on here: just a friendly ribbing from CRM, is all.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Dude. Do you really have to be so snarky all the time?

Learn to listen to dissenting opinions--not just fly off the handle when people don't agree with you.

You have to admit there is a pretty consistent theme of 1E advocacy and RAW orthodoxy in your posts. I've grown to expect it, and you didn't disappoint this time, either.

Quote:
Whill: I did read that, but I don't think the skill needs any tweaking, either.

And Whill and I didn't get four pages in on this topic because we think things are fine the way they are. I appreciate constructive criticism - Whill's suggestions early on changed this from having two separate Move skills to the more streamlined version I just posted - but when I get to this point, I don't consider "you should dump this whole idea and go back to 1E" to be constructive.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
You have to admit there is a pretty consistent theme of 1E advocacy and RAW orthodoxy in your posts. I've grown to expect it, and you didn't disappoint this time, either.


Absolutely. I think the First Edition is the best edition of the game. That's why I play it.

But, I love Second Edition, too. It's a great game. It's just not my preference. In no way, though, do I think it's not an excellent game.

You, sir, are consistently ill tempered with anyone who disagree with your opinions.

I'd like you to change that and be nicer to play with. Or, just ignore my posts. Stop trying to get under my skin.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
You, sir, are consistently ill tempered with anyone who disagree with your opinions.

I'd like you to change that and be nicer to play with. Or, just ignore my posts. Stop trying to get under my skin.

I can respect that, and I will work on it.

But if you think I'm ill-tempered now, you should read some of my earlier material.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
You, sir, are consistently ill tempered with anyone who disagree with your opinions.

I'd like you to change that and be nicer to play with. Or, just ignore my posts. Stop trying to get under my skin.

I can respect that, and I will work on it.

But if you think I'm ill-tempered now, you should read some of my earlier material.


Thanks, man. Thanks for saying that. I do want us to get along. Very Happy
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Whill
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I can respect that, and I will work on it.
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
Thanks, man. Thanks for saying that. I do want us to get along.

I really appreciate the self-moderation, guys. I'm just going to leave this here for everyone reading this thread:

Quote:
(5) Keep it civil. Please be respectful of the forums, other users and their posts... Please be mindful of general forum etiquette, tone and knee-jerk reactions. Please do not engage in name-calling and personal attacks... Sometimes all you can do is agree to disagree. Please try to avoid the mere appearance of incivility.
...
(8) Consensus and Criticism... Even without asking, posting anything invites criticism. It is unrealistic to only expect support for an idea you post... On the other hand, if you vehemently oppose an idea and/or don’t have anything to add to the discussion, please consider just moving on.

Waleb, your initial comment was based your misunderstanding that a new skill was being added instead of two skills being combined into one. This is not "skill bloat". This is skill list reduction, whether you agree with the rule or not.
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote:
You, sir, are consistently ill tempered with anyone who disagree with your opinions.

I'd like you to change that and be nicer to play with. Or, just ignore my posts. Stop trying to get under my skin.

I can respect that, and I will work on it.

But if you think I'm ill-tempered now, you should read some of my earlier material.


Yup. I put CRM on a 1 mo, Me no talky time out, cause of he got a while back..
_________________
It's Not who you kill, but how they die!
You cannot dodge it if you do not know it is coming, and you cannot hit it if you do not know its there.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11599
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Yup. I put CRM on a 1 mo, Me no talky time out, cause of he got a while back..

Most relaxing month of my life. Wink
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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jmanski
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Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a bunch of children argue.


And then I realize I'm one of the children.....
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man, when G and CRM go at it, I just wish we had the "popcorn" emoticon. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked
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