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"Smoke Screens" in Space
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12390
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An alternate thought on this (and one more in line with traditional smoke screens) would be to allow ships to dump some sort of reactive mass (maybe radioactive waste or something along those lines) into the exhaust / thrust section of their drive, which is then ejected as a persistent cloud of particulate matter, throwing off radiation, electromagnetic interference and such. It's not hugely realistic from a real-Sci Fi perspective, but it's more plausible in a Space Opera setting, what with the close ranges at which ship combat occurs in the SWU.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12390
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few more thoughts on this...

I'm liking more and more the idea of creating a "mini-nebula" by dumping some sort of heavy reactant into the ship's main thruster exhaust.

-I'm thinking that the effect should be roughly equal to Jamming, say +10 to Difficulty to Identify in the first round, and +10 to Difficulty to Identify and Detect in following rounds, as the gas cloud will obscure the generating ship's exact location once it has been started.

-For maximum effectiveness, a ship needs two consecutive Loop maneuvers (one per round for two rounds), so that the "smoke" is dispersed as broadly as possible. This limits its use to small, nimble craft (corvettes and frigates) that have the agility to pull off such tight maneuvers.

-The gas cloud should persist for one minute (12 rounds) at full effectiveness (+10 to Difficulty) then drop to half effectiveness (+5) for 6 rounds as it disperses.

-Should count as Full Concealment (-4D to Gunnery) for ships within the cloud, dropping to -2D as the cloud disperses.

-Ships can maneuver to interpose the screen between themselves and the enemy, receiving the Cover and Sensor bonuses on a successful Piloting roll at +5 Difficulty for Frigates and +10 for Destroyers.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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KageRyu
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Joined: 06 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can not remember which right now, but on one of the many official books for D6 Star Wars I had there was a type of grenade for Ground Combat that spread an Anti-Blaster Aerosol. Most of my books are packed away so I cannot check, but I want to say it was in the Corporate Sector book.

I know, how is this relevant right?
I think it would be simple enough to adapt the rules for a missile launcher or bomb rack to say it drops a space sized version of this...or a sensor Jamming Aerosol, etc... Without having to write a whole set of new rules or guidelines.

As I recall, the Damage Die Code of the grenade version was it's saturation, and dissipated 1D every turn, and added to defense rolls of anyone shot at in or through the cloud. An anti-Sensor version could simply add to detection difficulty.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12390
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KageRyu wrote:
I can not remember which right now, but on one of the many official books for D6 Star Wars I had there was a type of grenade for Ground Combat that spread an Anti-Blaster Aerosol. Most of my books are packed away so I cannot check, but I want to say it was in the Corporate Sector book.

Pretty sure the specific thing you're talking about is in the D20 Arms & Equipment Guide. The WEG equivalent is the A3AA Personal Defense System, that essentially is a vest equipped with aerosol sprayers.

Quote:
I know, how is this relevant right?
I think it would be simple enough to adapt the rules for a missile launcher or bomb rack to say it drops a space sized version of this...or a sensor Jamming Aerosol, etc... Without having to write a whole set of new rules or guidelines.

As I recall, the Damage Die Code of the grenade version was it's saturation, and dissipated 1D every turn, and added to defense rolls of anyone shot at in or through the cloud. An anti-Sensor version could simply add to detection difficulty.

I initially considered something along the lines of a space bomb, but I ultimately decided that I wanted this effect to parallel real-world naval smoke screens as closely as possible, and that meant it had to be some sort of additive in the ship's exhaust.

BTW, welcome back.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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KageRyu
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Joined: 06 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

Pretty sure the specific thing you're talking about is in the D20 Arms & Equipment Guide. The WEG equivalent is the A3AA Personal Defense System, that essentially is a vest equipped with aerosol sprayers.

I am certain it was a D6 book. I did not tend to use D20 converted material. I am fairly certain it was even a Star Wars book, but there is a slim chance it was not, that it was from the latter D6 line (Possibly the Kanwa Weapons Catalog with D6 system stats). I was certain though that I had run into a description of Anti-Blaster Aerosol in one of the Star Wars game books taht either I owned, or my friend owned (maybe the Rebel Specforce Book or Cracken's Rebel Field Guide). I wish the majority of my books were not packed away.

There is the chance it was one of the notoriously vague descriptives common to older WEG books as you mention with Smoke Grenades, and the spot rule was something I came up with quick and dirty to keep the game moving (The Die Code dropping off like a grenades damage over range, and simply adding to armor or obscurement). It was so long ago now.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12390
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good catch. Cracken's Rebel Field Guide, page 70. Unfortunately, the description basically just says that it reduces blaster damage by 1D for 12 rounds, 6 on a windy day, with no rules for dispersion. There is also the fact that it isn't exactly portable; a bottle .3 meters high x .3 meters in diameter only protects about 3 square meters, and only for a minute. I recall theorizing something a bit more detailed this in combination with a smoke grenade that would actually provide both concealment and a degree of protection for troops crossing free-fire zones, but what is described here is pretty anemic, relatively speaking.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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KageRyu
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Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 995
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Good catch. Cracken's Rebel Field Guide, page 70. Unfortunately, the description basically just says that it reduces blaster damage by 1D for 12 rounds, 6 on a windy day, with no rules for dispersion. There is also the fact that it isn't exactly portable; a bottle .3 meters high x .3 meters in diameter only protects about 3 square meters, and only for a minute. I recall theorizing something a bit more detailed this in combination with a smoke grenade that would actually provide both concealment and a degree of protection for troops crossing free-fire zones, but what is described here is pretty anemic, relatively speaking.

If I recall, the one in Cracken's is a jury rig using Engine Coolant or Something of the like? A weaponized/militarized version would likely be more potent or portable or both.
What I had used was close to what you describe, it was a Combination Smoke/Anti-Blaster Aerosol... I think I did only give it a 1D add to resist damage, but added 4D difficulty (near blind under skill modifiers as I recall) for the smoke obscurement to hit.
I'm heading to my storage unit this week, I will grab a couple of the books I think I might have seen the grenades in to check. I might have worked up from the coolant in the Field Guide and other sources to make a house rule... I had these turn up in game almost 12 years ago. Incidently, I had a strike team on the ground with special goggles that allowed them to see through the mist of their smoke bombs - much the same as a Gand can (and one of the Players was playing a Gand, so he could see through as well).
I think I might have also gone with a steady drop off in the penalty as the smoke dispersed because it felt more natural too... (I am starting to think maybe I did cobble together different rules elements to make spot rules for them...).
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
A few more thoughts on this...

I'm liking more and more the idea of creating a "mini-nebula" by dumping some sort of heavy reactant into the ship's main thruster exhaust.

-I'm thinking that the effect should be roughly equal to Jamming, say +10 to Difficulty to Identify in the first round, and +10 to Difficulty to Identify and Detect in following rounds, as the gas cloud will obscure the generating ship's exact location once it has been started.

-For maximum effectiveness, a ship needs two consecutive Loop maneuvers (one per round for two rounds), so that the "smoke" is dispersed as broadly as possible. This limits its use to small, nimble craft (corvettes and frigates) that have the agility to pull off such tight maneuvers.

-The gas cloud should persist for one minute (12 rounds) at full effectiveness (+10 to Difficulty) then drop to half effectiveness (+5) for 6 rounds as it disperses.

-Should count as Full Concealment (-4D to Gunnery) for ships within the cloud, dropping to -2D as the cloud disperses.

-Ships can maneuver to interpose the screen between themselves and the enemy, receiving the Cover and Sensor bonuses on a successful Piloting roll at +5 Difficulty for Frigates and +10 for Destroyers.


Shouldn't though, there be some sort of chance of the ship doing that 'dump heavy reactant' having a possible mishap in their engines, because OF the dump? Also, how much 'reactant' would they have to use up (IE hitting their consumables rating)?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12390
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Shouldn't though, there be some sort of chance of the ship doing that 'dump heavy reactant' having a possible mishap in their engines, because OF the dump?

Since I'm attempting to parallel the classic naval smoke screen, which is achieved simply by spraying fuel oil into a ship's smoke stacks, I don't see why there should be a problem. Is there some historical record of chronic problems of ships catching on fire at random moments while using their smoke screens?

Quote:
Also, how much 'reactant' would they have to use up (IE hitting their consumables rating)?

Considering that nothing else in the game seems to affect the Consumables rating, there isn't much argument to make an exception just for this.

I can see a ship having a limited number of "charges" and requiring a cool-down period between uses, ala the way smoke screens are used in World of Warships (which was a big part of my inspiration).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Shouldn't though, there be some sort of chance of the ship doing that 'dump heavy reactant' having a possible mishap in their engines, because OF the dump?

Since I'm attempting to parallel the classic naval smoke screen, which is achieved simply by spraying fuel oil into a ship's smoke stacks, I don't see why there should be a problem. Is there some historical record of chronic problems of ships catching on fire at random moments while using their smoke screens?


From my naval training, that was often done by dumping wet blankets and the like into the boiler itself. So there is a risk of debris build up.

CRMcNeill wrote:

Considering that nothing else in the game seems to affect the Consumables rating, there isn't much argument to make an exception just for this.


So why even have the consumables rating (or # of shots per power pack), if they are never really bothered with?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12390
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
From my naval training, that was often done by dumping wet blankets and the like into the boiler itself. So there is a risk of debris build up.

That sounds like more of an improvised approach than having a ship actually be designed to do it. A nozzle spraying fuel oil into the exhaust stack would be a ship system, installed specifically for the purpose of creating a smoke screen, and would burn off far more completely than throwing a wet blanket in the boiler.

Quote:
So why even have the consumables rating (or # of shots per power pack), if they are never really bothered with?

Find someone from WEG and ask them. I'm personally inclined toward replacing Consumables with my Endurance dice system. Most ships big enough to use this (corvettes and frigates and such) are going to have a year or so worth of Consumables. Is this something you actually bother to track?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 12390
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Static Cloud Generator

This device creates a temporary zone of sensor interference in space in the form of a persistent cloud of charged particles. The cloud is generated by injecting a blend of exotic chemicals (including spin-sealed tibanna gas, high-grade hyperbarides and heavy fissionables) into the thrust ports of a ship's engines. When expelled, the resulting cloud wreaks havoc with any sensor systems that attempt to scan into or through it.

Effect: Can be used in two modes, Pulse or Cloud.

In Pulse Mode, the generating ship simply flies along its course, generating a series of smaller static clouds. This is considered a free action for the generating ship, and the resulting patches of static provide a +10 modifier to Sensor Difficulty. Unfortunately, the smaller patches disperse relatively quickly (effect lasts six rounds)

In Cloud Mode, the generating ship engages in a maneuver specifically designed to generate a single, large cloud that provides a +20 modifier to Sensor Difficulty. The required maneuver is Difficult and takes a full round to complete, but the resulting cloud lasts much longer than Pulse Mode (12 rounds instead of 6). On a failed Piloting roll, it generates a basic Pulse Mode effect. Because of the Difficulty of the maneuver, Static Generators are generally mounted on smaller, more maneuverable vessels (corvettes, frigates, etc) who have the necessary agility to complete it.

Ammo: Most generators have a limited supply of the chemical fuel needed to generate a static cloud, and can generate a total of 6 uses. Larger vessels can carry more charges, but are only rarely equipped with static generators, instead depending on their escort vessels to provide static fields as needed.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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