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Smallest possible ship to carry a gravity well projector.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarn wrote:
It's only logical - we know that the TIE fighters are bigger on the inside, because now they can fit three grown men while they earlier were single-seaters.

But actually it's illogical, because Rebels is a prequel which means TIE Fighters went from bigger on the inside to smaller.

Rebels did have time travel in it so maybe time travel changed something. Maybe it is logical, in a wibbly wobbly, timey wimey sense.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Zarn wrote:
It's only logical - we know that the TIE fighters are bigger on the inside, because now they can fit three grown men while they earlier were single-seaters.

But actually it's illogical, because Rebels is a prequel which means TIE Fighters went from bigger on the inside to smaller.

Rebels did have time travel in it so maybe time travel changed something. Maybe it is logical, in a wibbly wobbly, timey wimey sense.



I would not at all argue the tie have become any smaller inside.

If we look to TFA we had two seater ties not any larger than the single seaters, and though in rebels we had three people "fit" inside, they by no meas had seating or the like. It was simply room enough in the dome for three.

There is no reason to assume the dome interior has shrunk in any way.

If we compare with an X Wing, then there are actual incidents of two people in x wings, despite it being a single seat fighter.

as to the time traveling in rebels, that was part of the force world between worlds, all that.
Whatever we think about that, i doubut it made time travel possible, as this was in a foce "dimension" only.
and well the force hav done a lot of wierd stuff in star wars, and it would all depend on personal preferences i guess.

But there are stories that were legend and eu that actually did involve an astronomical anomaly that in fact did send people back in time.

However as to the topic of the thread, it has been suggested that the "hyperdrive" as we see in rebels is technically a component of it, and i see that my self as the most likely seeing that all other hyper drives wighs in the tons and up, however I do wonder maybe more on actual dimentions than wights on the x wing hyper drive, it can not be very large
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
There is no reason to assume the dome interior has shrunk in any way.

We were just joking about Doctor Who tech in TIEs. And it doesn't make sense for TIE cockpits to just have a bunch of unused space, so even if it looks like it might have room in the films to hold more than the one pilot, why would the cockpits even be made with space for three people if they only need one pilot. It is now "canon" that TIE cockpits are "tightly fitted" and "designed for a single occupant" but now because of Rebels "several other passengers could fit inside."

Another ridiculous thing about the same episode was that TIE pilots are always shown in the films (and the Rebels show) wearing a space suit (why lore says there is no atmosphere in TIE cockpits), but in Rebels the three people had no space suits. Do they not need to breath? To explain this, now it is "canon" that there is minimal life support in the cockpit, minimal somehow meaning a single TIE pilot still needs a space suit but three Rebels don't need one.

I don't blame anyone for enjoying Rebels as entertainment. You like what you like and that is subjective. I'm even envious of those who can suspend disbelief enough to enjoy it - You have the ability to like more Star Wars than I do. But don't try to argue that Rebels accurately represents the same universe as the films. It just doesn't. Enjoy it all you want though. I'm jealous, but that's my problem.

Quote:
If we compare with an X Wing, then there are actual incidents of two people in x wings, despite it being a single seat fighter.

There are no incidents in the films, and I would argue further, no incidents that make sense with respect to what we see in the films, unless they were small people.

Quote:
as to the time traveling in rebels, that was part of the force world between worlds, all that.
Whatever we think about that, i doubut it made time travel possible, as this was in a foce "dimension" only.
and well the force hav done a lot of wierd stuff in star wars, and it would all depend on personal preferences i guess.

No, time travel did occur on Rebels, in that "world between worlds" that could access different times. Ashoka originally died in that Sith temple where she fought Vader. Ezra reached back in time and saved her right as the floor collapsed under her and Vader. Ezra reached into the past. That changed what happened originally, but not enough to upset history because she died originally, and Vader survived both times so it had no impact. That was contrasted to the portal where they looked back at Kanan's death. Ezra wanted to pull him forward too, but they realized that they couldn't, because removing Kanan from the past would undo his sacrifice and lead to the rest of the team dying. He couldn't save Kanan without undoing the events that lead to Ezra being there. Saving Kanan would have altered history, which means that saving Ashoka without altering anything else was still technically time travel because in the original timeline, Ezra wasn't there to save her so she died. Then Ezra later reached backwards in time and saved her. Time travel.

Quote:
But there are stories that were legend and eu that actually did involve an astronomical anomaly that in fact did send people back in time.

Time travel in the EU was mostly in the forward direction. Time always moves in the forward direction so that really isn't "time travel" per se in skipping over some time but never going backwards in time. But yes, there were a few instances of actual time travel into the past. I read a comic book story where R2 and 3PO travelled from 15 BBY to over 15 years into the future, encountered the Ewoks on Endor, and then went back to their own time. This is actually considered canon in the EU, despite being a silly little kiddie story.

I have argued that time travel in Star Wars is really outside the genre of the films. That Droids/Ewoks crossover is outside the genre of the films, just like Rebels cartoon episode is outside the genre of the films. But I was just joking about time travel in Rebels changing TIE Fighters. I was hoping that my use of the term, "wibbly wobbly, timey wimey" would give that away. The real explanation is, Rebels does not represent the same reality that the films do. Different media, different genre.
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Sutehp
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
No, time travel did occur on Rebels, in that "world between worlds" that could access different times. Ashoka originally died in that Sith temple where she fought Vader. Ezra reached back in time and saved her right as the floor collapsed under her and Vader. Ezra reached into the past. That changed what happened originally, but not enough to upset history because she died originally, and Vader survived both times so it had no impact. That was contrasted to the portal where they looked back at Kanan's death. Ezra wanted to pull him forward too, but they realized that they couldn't, because removing Kanan from the past would undo his sacrifice and lead to the rest of the team dying. He couldn't save Kanan without undoing the events that lead to Ezra being there. Saving Kanan would have altered history, which means that saving Ashoka without altering anything else was still technically time travel because in the original timeline, Ezra wasn't there to save her so she died. Then Ezra later reached backwards in time and saved her. Time travel.


There's nothing indicating that Ahsoka died on Malachor in the "previous" timeline. In fact, we have the Topps Cards designed by Dave Filoni from 2016 showing us that Ahsoka didn't die on Malachor after Vader left her for dead. This is reinforced by the same brief image during the very end of "Twilight of the Apprentice, Part 2" when we see Ahsoka walk back into the Sith temple after Vader is seen limping away. The Topps cards even have an image of Ahsoka walking through a World Between Worlds portal lined by wolves, just like the Lothal portal! And remember, guys, these images were released almost two years before the "World Between Worlds" episode was aired. Dave Filoni knew that Ahsoka survived on Malachor and wanted to mess a bit with the fans' heads by releasing these (then) ambiguous images. There was no "original timeline" where Ahsoka died. Ezra had already rescued her from Vader when we see Ahsoka walk back into the temple. Ahsoka's rescue by Ezra is an example of both You Already Changed The Past and Stable Time Loop. There was only ever one canon timeline. (Yes, the Legends timeline is a different timeline but its existence is not due to time travel so much as a retcon to make the Sequel Trilogy possible, so that's a different kettle of fish entirely. Also, I know that there are episodes of TCW where Anakin got visions of the future, but as I'm unfamiliar with them, I can't comment on any time travel tropes used there, if any.)

Whill wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
But there are stories that were legend and eu that actually did involve an astronomical anomaly that in fact did send people back in time.

Time travel in the EU was mostly in the forward direction. Time always moves in the forward direction so that really isn't "time travel" per se in skipping over some time but never going backwards in time. But yes, there were a few instances of actual time travel into the past. I read a comic book story where R2 and 3PO travelled from 15 BBY to over 15 years into the future, encountered the Ewoks on Endor, and then went back to their own time. This is actually considered canon in the EU, despite being a silly little kiddie story.

I have argued that time travel in Star Wars is really outside the genre of the films. That Droids/Ewoks crossover is outside the genre of the films, just like Rebels cartoon episode is outside the genre of the films. But I was just joking about time travel in Rebels changing TIE Fighters. I was hoping that my use of the term, "wibbly wobbly, timey wimey" would give that away. The real explanation is, Rebels does not represent the same reality that the films do. Different media, different genre.


I agree that time travel is (normally) outside of the Star Wars genre. But stable time loops like these do make sense in the context of Star Wars as one of the themes in the saga is all about accepting the consequences of your actions and trying to redeem yourself by fixing what went wrong. You can't change the past, no matter how much you might want to, even if you have access to time travel. This is what Ezra realizes when Ahsoka tells him not to save Kanan.

We see a similar theme in both Revenge of the Sith and The Last Jedi. Both Anakin and Luke had a vision of a horrible future (Anakin seeing Padme dying; Luke seeing Ben falling into darkness) and by trying to prevent their visions from coming to pass, they only guaranteed their outcome. (Yeah, this is from a different genre, but when Oogway from King Fu Panda said "one often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it," this is exactly what he was talking about.) Yoda even laughs at Luke at the end of TLJ for still making the same mistake of trying to prevent a possible future instead of focusing on the immediate consequences of the here and now.
Yoda wrote:
"Skywalker. Still looking to the horizon. Never here, now, hmm? The need in front of your nose."


Basically, it helps with the You Already Changed The Past trope that the World Between Worlds got used only once (to rescue Ahsoka), did not get used to rescue Kanan (since that would have created an irresolvable paradox) and was deliberately destroyed before a maniac like the Emperor could get his hands on it (who would likely have created a whole slew of paradoxes without caring about the consequences of any of them so long as it increased his own power). Using a time travel story (but only briefly) to highlight how actions have consequences we must accept does (in my mind, anyway) fit with the themes of Star Wars. In that same scene in TLJ where Yoda talks to Luke about focusing on the here and now, he also mentions how we even have to accept the bad consequences because even they serve a purpose.
Yoda wrote:
"Pass on what you have learned. Strength, mastery. But weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure, most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters."
If a one-time use of You Already Changed the Past can highlight how the consequences of the past can't be changed and we have to accept our failures, this fits perfectly into the themes of Star Wars since those very failures can at least teach the next generation to avoid those same mistakes.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting thought came up as part of a discussion on gravity well projectors over on the fractalsponge page...

While what we see in the Rebels episode with the Interdictor doesn't resemble the actual functioning of Interdictors, there's a very close parallel in the Hyperspace Pulse-Mass Emitter, which has an actual physical effect on ships in hyperspace, as seen in the Rebels episode.

What if the Interdictor in that scene wasn't equipped with Gravity Well Projectors, but was instead equipped with an experimental version of the Pulse-Mass Emitter that inflicted ion damage instead of kinetic damage?

It doesn't explain the effect of the Interdictor at the end of the episode, but is at least a somewhat plausible explanation for the Interdictor's first appearance.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
An interesting thought came up as part of a discussion on gravity well projectors over on the fractalsponge page...

While what we see in the Rebels episode with the Interdictor doesn't resemble the actual functioning of Interdictors, there's a very close parallel in the Hyperspace Pulse-Mass Emitter, which has an actual physical effect on ships in hyperspace, as seen in the Rebels episode.

What if the Interdictor in that scene wasn't equipped with Gravity Well Projectors, but was instead equipped with an experimental version of the Pulse-Mass Emitter that inflicted ion damage instead of kinetic damage?

It doesn't explain the effect of the Interdictor at the end of the episode, but is at least a somewhat plausible explanation for the Interdictor's first appearance.



Good thought.

Indeed it affected ships already in hyoerspace, and interdictors usually don't.

Maybe the interdictor we saw had both weapons, as it seemed it was able to also prevent jumps as well as ripping ships from it
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