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Renaming Skills for Clarification
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:03 am    Post subject: Renaming Skills for Clarification Reply with quote

IMO, certain skills could've been better named in order to avoid confusion. A couple examples:
    Piloting Skills - Piloting has a very specific function, that of directing a vehicle from Point A to Point B. In a system where some vehicles are covered by an Operations skill, I think all the Piloting skills should be relabeled as Operations skills so as to cover some of the non-specific systems that don't cleanly fall under other skills (mainly power transfer rules, but a catch-all to cover systems other than weapons, shields and comm/scan would be handy).

    Parry Skills - To me, Parry has connotations of physically blocking an attack, but not all attacks are appropriately countered by physical contact. I'm wondering if Melee Defense and Brawling Defense (or even a simple combined Defense skill) might be more appropriate.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Melee/brawl defense i like the name change of...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Renaming Skills for Clarification Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
IMO, certain skills could've been better named in order to avoid confusion. A couple examples:
    Piloting Skills - Piloting has a very specific function, that of directing a vehicle from Point A to Point B. In a system where some vehicles are covered by an Operations skill, I think all the Piloting skills should be relabeled as Operations skills so as to cover some of the non-specific systems that don't cleanly fall under other skills (mainly power transfer rules, but a catch-all to cover systems other than weapons, shields and comm/scan would be handy).

    Parry Skills - To me, Parry has connotations of physically blocking an attack, but not all attacks are appropriately countered by physical contact. I'm wondering if Melee Defense and Brawling Defense (or even a simple combined Defense skill) might be more appropriate.

I agree.

Although FTL travel seems common, the reality is that there are trillions of galactic citizens that never leave their home star system. There must be interplanetary shuttles that do not even have hyperdrives. Starships are so named because they have hyperdrives that allow them to travel from star system to star system. The skill to navigate hyperspace (astrogation) is not the same skill used to operate starships at sublight. It wouldn't make sense that there would be a skill to operate FTL ships at sublight, and a different skill to operate non-FTL ships at sublight. Therefore, I have renamed starship skills as spaceship skills to include ships without hyperdrives.

Here are some other possibilities:

Grenade -> Throw/Catch
Pick Pocket -> Slight of Hand
Beast Riding -> Animal Handling Riding
Command -> Leadership
Con -> Deception
Gambling -> Gaming/Gambling
Persuasion -> Persuasion/Charm
Sneak -> Stealth
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like most of your suggestions, but why is Astrogation insufficient to cover operating a hyperdrive?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I like most of your suggestions, but why is Astrogation insufficient to cover operating a hyperdrive?

It's not and I never said it was. I said astrogation (the hyperspace skill) is not the skill used to operate a starship at sublight speeds. Therefore, the same skill should be used to operate a ship at sublight whether the ship has a hyperdrive or not. The term starship technically excludes spaceships without hyperdrives, when hyperdrives are irrelevant when the ship is traveling at sublight speeds. Spaceship is an inclusive term for ships with and without hyperdrives. (All starships are spaceships, but not all spaceships are starships.) So a skill called spaceship operation would be used to fly a ship through realspace, and astrogation would be used to plot a course through hyperspace, obviously for starships only (spaceships with hyperdrives).
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
I like most of your suggestions, but why is Astrogation insufficient to cover operating a hyperdrive?

It's not and I never said it was. I said astrogation (the hyperspace skill) is not the skill used to operate a starship at sublight speeds. Therefore, the same skill should be used to operate a ship at sublight whether the ship has a hyperdrive or not. The term starship technically excludes spaceships without hyperdrives, when hyperdrives are irrelevant when the ship is traveling at sublight speeds. Spaceship is an inclusive term for ships with and without hyperdrives. (All starships are spaceships, but not all spaceships are starships.) So a skill called spaceship operation would be used to fly a ship through realspace, and astrogation would be used to plot a course through hyperspace, obviously for starships only (spaceships with hyperdrives).


Is not the "Archaic starship" skill the "non hyperdrive" type of starship .
I picture the archaic ships as even older than the old republic ships, something like the systems with an "earth like" technology, capable of space flight but not star travel outside maybe their own system
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing I've ever used Archaic Starship Piloting for was a Solar Sail Drive for scout ships that could recharge the drive while providing a degree of propulsion within a star system. The only other thing that might fit, IMO, would be something along the lines of a pre-gravitic and pre-ethereal rudder tech society that still relied on Newtonian physics to maneuver their craft in realspace, which would require a completely new set of rules to operate in the game. I suppose a realistic crossover of the Reimagined Battlestar Galactica series would qualify...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
Whill wrote:
The term starship technically excludes spaceships without hyperdrives, when hyperdrives are irrelevant when the ship is traveling at sublight speeds. Spaceship is an inclusive term for ships with and without hyperdrives. (All starships are spaceships, but not all spaceships are starships.) So a skill called spaceship operation would be used to fly a ship through realspace, and astrogation would be used to plot a course through hyperspace, obviously for starships only (spaceships with hyperdrives).

Is not the "Archaic starship" skill the "non hyperdrive" type of starship .
I picture the archaic ships as even older than the old republic ships, something like the systems with an "earth like" technology, capable of space flight but not star travel outside maybe their own system

If archaic meant sublight-only, then "archaic starships" would be an oxymoron because starships are ships that travel between star systems. I always thought of "Archaic starships" to be ships with FTL but ships based on ancient technologies. Like with modern ships, perhaps a better term would be archaic spaceships which may or may not have FTL. But I wouldn't refer to modern non-FTL ships as archaic because I see spaceships without hyperdrives to be quite common around the modern galaxy.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Astrogation, covering both any sublight "navigation" as well as the hyperspace "navigation"
Could there be an added skill working the same way but for hyperspace only, like Jump claculations or something, wwith astrogation being "navigation"

Han Solo does talk about the needed accurate caluculations, so it seems a seperate skill from merely getting your sublight bearings and the like.

but then again how spesifics should we be, in the end we have 57 pages of skills, so maybe just allow a broad use of vaguley or "strangely" named skills
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
So a skill called spaceship operation would be used to fly a ship through realspace, and astrogation would be used to plot a course through hyperspace, obviously for starships only (spaceships with hyperdrives).

Understood. I wonder, however, if the actual realspace operating systems differ to such a degree as to require separate skills. Fighter pilots in the EU seem to transition easily enough from non-HS capable TIEs to HS-capable X-Wings and Y-Wings and the like.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
Whill wrote:
The term starship technically excludes spaceships without hyperdrives, when hyperdrives are irrelevant when the ship is traveling at sublight speeds. Spaceship is an inclusive term for ships with and without hyperdrives. (All starships are spaceships, but not all spaceships are starships.) So a skill called spaceship operation would be used to fly a ship through realspace, and astrogation would be used to plot a course through hyperspace, obviously for starships only (spaceships with hyperdrives).

Is not the "Archaic starship" skill the "non hyperdrive" type of starship .
I picture the archaic ships as even older than the old republic ships, something like the systems with an "earth like" technology, capable of space flight but not star travel outside maybe their own system

If archaic meant sublight-only, then "archaic starships" would be an oxymoron because starships are ships that travel between star systems. I always thought of "Archaic starships" to be ships with FTL but ships based on ancient technologies. Like with modern ships, perhaps a better term would be archaic spaceships which may or may not have FTL. But I wouldn't refer to modern non-FTL ships as archaic because I see spaceships without hyperdrives to be quite common around the modern galaxy.


For me, archaic would count for anything 500+ years old..
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Whill wrote:
So a skill called spaceship operation would be used to fly a ship through realspace, and astrogation would be used to plot a course through hyperspace, obviously for starships only (spaceships with hyperdrives).

Understood. I wonder, however, if the actual realspace operating systems differ to such a degree as to require separate skills. Fighter pilots in the EU seem to transition easily enough from non-HS capable TIEs to HS-capable X-Wings and Y-Wings and the like.

That's a different question, but ok. In my game spaceship operation is not just a generalization to include non-hyperdrive ships, but it is also a generalization to include space transports and starfighters both. So those 2e skills are recombined in my game as they were in 1e.

And back to the original topic, TIE Fighters are a great example. Technically, "starfighters" would be a misnomer for TIEs because they don't have hyperdrives and can't travel from star to star (even if they had gotten lost, been part of a convoy or something). TIEs are technically spacefighters, not starfighters. (And spacefighters are spaceships.)
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Bren
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of starfighters you could use "snubfighters."
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
Instead of starfighters you could use "snubfighters."

Indeed!
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
Instead of starfighters you could use "snubfighters."
This. Of the three terms, “snubfighter” is the only one to actually be used in the film (that or just “fighter”).
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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