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CP Cost Device Maintenance
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:03 pm    Post subject: CP Cost Device Maintenance Reply with quote

I've heard various ideas over the years for rules to represent a character spending time maintaining and/or repair, but in the end, it always seems a bit too complicated. However, I've been reading up on 1E lately, and an idea occurred to me. Under 1E, it was possible to improve a ship or weapon's stats by spending CP on it. I tend to think the 2E version, where the characters actually had to come up with the cash and make the appropriate skill roll was a better choice, but the rule did strike a chord with me for a different application.

Suppose all major pieces of equipment had a CP cost (usually 1, but increasing for more complex or finicky items) that had to be paid between missions in order to keep it in good working condition. Basically, every "mission break" where the characters have the opportunity to spend CP to improve their Skills, they must also expend the listed CP to keep their equipment in good working order. Failure to do so results in an increased likelihood of failure in the next mission.

A simple blaster pistol might have a CP cost of 1, while a notoriously finicky contraption like the Millennium Falcon would have a cost of 7 or 8 (numbers subject to change). I don't think I'd extend this to every single device - making a character pay 1CP per mission to keep his comlink in working order is just silly - but it seems a fair price to pay for a signature piece of equipment that the character uses on a regular basis.

Thoughts?
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My immediate thoughts went to the Falcon and other high tuned hanger queen ships. For CP cost I'd probably start it at 1 and add a +1 for every mod point from GG:6. I really like this for maintaining vehicles.

As far as personal gear? I don't like the idea of expending CP to maintain basic equipment, the only stuff that might be is rare, exotic, or ancient equipment.

On a side note, I do like the ability of being able to substitute CPs for cash when making modifications, but maybe when you do this, you have an increased chance of a mishap modifier. (Like if you roll a 1 on the modification roll)
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of a cp cost for mainainance and stuff, but with the raw, offereing at a good day a mere 4-5 pr mission, I can see how mainining your balster and armor now prevents you from character improvement.

but with a x2 of normal value given .eine 6-8 cp pr mission I can see this work.

I just finished new recruits and rebel guns, an intro mission for a campaing aI am GMing if you will, I was not at all greedy and gave the CP that the story warrented, and ticked what else extra the payer had done, the cps awareded was 3-4-4-4 for my players.

Now if I was now to pay 1cp to maintian my balster 2 cp for my armor, and maybe 1 cp for the rest of my gear i would start my next mission at -1cp.


So to have a cp cost on maintainence is great, it must be if the RWA awards is raided.

I would not want in any way to play a campain where I after 8 Missions still have my unmodified starting cahracter becuse I spent all my CP awarded on repairing my gear.


Gods if I have a ship.....and have to spend 6-7 maybe more to maintain.......hard to pull off with a 3-5 varage CP reward in RAW.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the cost should have an in game benefit where it counteracts one or more 1's on the wild die. Perhaps part of the reason that the Falcon breaks down so often is that Han ends up short of CP for keeping it in good working order because of all of the modifications.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not cost CP for maintenance. I'm not a HUGE fan of investing CP in items, but I could certainly see it as something of an alternative to improving your skills.

Take, for example, Chewie's Bowcaster. By default, it does 4D damage. However, Chewie has spent a lot of time improving his bowcaster, and so he might have built up its damage (which is why, perhaps, it's about as effective as a blaster in ANH, but a powerhouse in TFA).

I'd be inclined to use a cost similar to specialties, perhaps with a discount because it is invested in an item... half the rating, round down, minimum 1. So, for Chewie to start improving his bowcaster would be 2 CP per pip -- (4 / 2) = 2 -- and would continue at 2 CP per pip through the 5D -- (5/2) = 2.5 rounds down to 2.

So, if Chewie started with a 4D bowcaster, he could invest 12 CP, over time, to have a 6D bowcaster. Downside? If he loses the bowcaster, he loses the CPs (though I might let him build up the same sort of item for half cost; he knows what to do).

In the case of melee weapons, I would also have any improvements improve the maximum damage... no one will invest points in their special dagger if it doesn't help improve the cap.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have similar feelings to what some others have expressed. In my game CP awards are slightly lower than what would seem to be average among most other GMs I've heard from, so I am not thrilled about the idea of requiring equipment to be maintained with CPs because it would come out of CPs needed to improve character skills. But I can see CPs more as an option to substitute an aspect of the modification rules in 2e, which I still would not recommend to players outside of droids and starships.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm getting ready to hit the road, so I can't reply in detail yet. I just wanted to add that, from my POV, CPs spend to improve skills represent time and energy expended during the character's limited amount of "down" time. As such, time taken for upkeep and maintenance on a complex and crucial device make sense, as that is time the character could spend doing other things.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: CP Cost Device Maintenance Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I've heard various ideas over the years for rules to represent a character spending time maintaining and/or repair, but in the end, it always seems a bit too complicated. However, I've been reading up on 1E lately, and an idea occurred to me. Under 1E, it was possible to improve a ship or weapon's stats by spending CP on it. I tend to think the 2E version, where the characters actually had to come up with the cash and make the appropriate skill roll was a better choice, but the rule did strike a chord with me for a different application.

Suppose all major pieces of equipment had a CP cost (usually 1, but increasing for more complex or finicky items) that had to be paid between missions in order to keep it in good working condition. Basically, every "mission break" where the characters have the opportunity to spend CP to improve their Skills, they must also expend the listed CP to keep their equipment in good working order. Failure to do so results in an increased likelihood of failure in the next mission.

A simple blaster pistol might have a CP cost of 1, while a notoriously finicky contraption like the Millennium Falcon would have a cost of 7 or 8 (numbers subject to change). I don't think I'd extend this to every single device - making a character pay 1CP per mission to keep his comlink in working order is just silly - but it seems a fair price to pay for a signature piece of equipment that the character uses on a regular basis.

Thoughts?


Now that's an interesting idea. ANd for items like ships, big repulsorlift transports, where they can carry multiple people, ALL can contribute to the 'maintenance cost CP"

However, as other's have said, you'd probably have to either
A) Increase the amount of CP's you award
or B) specifically give some more CP JUST FOR gear upkeep..
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a campaign I am playing we have a system called "flex" is basically a very easy gear/mainenance/Money system.


During the mission we have something like 1-2 flex each, and we have some group flex.

the felx we use when we are fighting and we find out now is a good time to need a grenade, so we spend a flex and we had brought two grandes.

I can later use the flex for another pair, or anything lesle that we have deemed have 1 flex cost, basically small paronal items.

For the group flex, we spent this on changing transponder codes on a stolen sheep, I can remember what all thing corresponded to with flex but here are some examples.

a couple of balster power packs(10), 4 med kits, 2 grenades, a knife, hold out or blaster.

2 flex would be larger things like a rifle and such.


as the coampaign progressed the flex pool progresed with us now having gear we could start with, not needing the flex unitl we come to the door where we need the balst charge, or where we need the tool box to fix the coms array etc
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if you spend 'flex' now, it retroactively gives you gear?
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
So if you spend 'flex' now, it retroactively gives you gear?


it sort of replaces gear for book keeping.

Flex
Each character has 5 points of flex that represent resources he has at his disposal. Flex can be spent to customise a character’s equipment loadout, or spent on the fly to acquire things of need. Flex refreshes at the start of a new scenario.

Loadout:
• Basics; clothes, comlink, = 0
• Small item; blaster pistol, medpac, 2 grenades, light body armour, = 1
• Large item; blaster rifle, disguise, heavy body armour, =2
• Exotic item; thermal detonator, lightsaber, Imperial disguise, = +1
• Signature item; the single item that defines the character = -1

Unspent Flex
Unspent flex counts as skill with a rating equal to the characters remaining flex. If a character wants an item during play, he can make a flex roll to have it on hand. A successful check reduces the characters flex by 1 and grants him the item.

Party Wealth – How you will always be poor
The groups wealth works like this; there is an abstract scale of Poor, Surviving, and Luxury.

Each scenario follows a job, encounter, or adventure which in the majority of the time you will be working to maintain your lifestyle and the hopes of striking it big. Earning a bonus, or gaining some significant form of wealth increases the groups wealth. Suffering a setback decreases the groups wealth.

When the group gains wealth choose one of the following;
• Add +1 to the group’s ‘retirement’ fund
• Buy something significant for the group
• Give everyone +2 flex until the end of the scenario next

When the group loses wealth; everyone loses 2 flex until the end of the next scenario.
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Argentsaber
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
So if you spend 'flex' now, it retroactively gives you gear?


This is basically a "bad editing roll" from "it came from the late late show" RPG. The party had it all the time, but only now was it necessary to notice. Very Happy

As a productive detail to the greater conversation.. I use the standard "round/scene/session" timescale, but also group 5-8 game sessions into a "story arc." Generally, between such story arcs we presume the party separates, visits Aunt May, starts welding the roof of the falcon, etc. That is when Equipment is upgraded by points, and only on a failed "upgrade" roll is it unavailable. Not sure if that exact thing would be as helpful to everyone, but maybe consider the wider time frame if you do choose to have equipment cost points?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“What I wouldn’t give for a Holocaust Cloak.”

“Will this do?”
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Argentsaber
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
“What I wouldn’t give for a Holocaust Cloak.”

“Will this do?”


...eeexactly. If there's a mechanic for it I don't see why not. Hell, you could even use a 1 result on a wild die to cancel out the "free" stuff.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hadn't considered that, but it does actually seem quite fun for a space opera style campaign. I recall an old gimmick from a DC Heroes system where Batman had what were essentially omni-gadgets, in that he could invent a tool on the spot to suit whatever he needed at the moment. He didn't actually invent and build a new tool on the spot; in-universe, he'd had it all along, and the rule allowed him to retro-edit his own equipment to define what it specifically was.
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