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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:38 am Post subject: |
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Actually with the RAW there is already acceleration taken into account. you can only move up or down one speed category per round. Stand still - cautious - cruise - full - flank. So a ship with 8 speed versus one with 6 has a little less acceleration.
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | Random Numbers wrote: | | there is only one problem...there is no max speed in space (not counting the speed of light). So unless the xwing runs out of power the ISD will never catch up. |
I fail to see the problem with that. However, with a 'flying start' they would be able to at least temporarily threaten any faster ships. |
It's only a problem if you want x-wings have a better acceleration than ISD's and still want the ISD be able to catch up with the x-wing...somehow.
To me it's not a problem since I don't think an ISD should be able to catch a fighter.
And regarding the realism...thats really not the point here. You could play with reverse gravity in your games or have starships make cool sound in space. To me this discussion is about viable game mechanics that have as much as possible of logic to them.  |
Nah, I have no particular reason why an ISD shoudl be able to catch an X-Wing except perhaps if the X-wing cant go into hyperspeed and runs out of fuel first.. 
Realism is always a point, as is how much you should break it.. 
Just because spaceships make sounds in space, I prefer to keep the effect of mass in the game..at least when not negated by some SW gizmo. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Grimace wrote: | Well, wouldn't it be relatively easy (simplistic) to simply put a number in brackets to signify the maximum acceleration of the ship each round? So an X-wing could have a [6] or something while a Star Destroyer has a [2]. So while the Star Destroyer could eventually get up and boogie, it would take it a few rounds to get there. And an X-wing would take far less to be at maximum speed, thus reflecting a greater accelertion.
Yeah, yeah...I know...not official, but it's a thought if someone really wanted to deal with this. |
I like the idea.
-Starfighters should have the same Space Speed and Space Acceleration. That would mean that the X-wing would end up with 8/8.
-Space Transports should have 50% of its Space stat in acceleration. Meaning that a standard YT1300 would have 6/3.
-Capital Ships should have 1/3 of their Space stat in acceleration. An ISD would end up with 6/2
This means that small combat craft are both fast, but more importantly they have superior acceleration due to the engines being a large part of their weight. Space transports can be almost equally fast, but will lack the acceleration due to a more 'dead weight'. Capital ships lastly still might have a good space rating, but these massive ships take some time to get up to speed.
Ships still move at cautious, normal or all out speed. The ships current 'speed level' is determined by comparing the current speed to the Space stat for speed. For example, an YT1300 with a Space stat of 6/3 would be moving at cautious speed between 1-3 space units/round, normal speed between 4-6, high speed between 7-12, and all out between 13-24 space units per round.
Things still in the process: What to do with the odd numbers cropping up when dividing speeds. Im leaning on rounding down 1/3 and 1/2 and rounding up 2/3.
I would like to differ combat ships from civilian craft, as there are some 'space transports' and 'capital' ships that are military and should have a better acceleration in general. Im not sure its worth it though, of if its really a problem. What I wouldnt like is to have some container-like ship accelerating as fast as an ISD. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10528
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Nah, I have no particular reason why an ISD should be able to catch an X-Wing... |
Translating the movies into game stats and mechanics is a tricky business indeed...
| Quote: | HAN: It looks like an Imperial cruiser...
EXT. SPACE - PLANET TATOOINE
The Millennium Falcon races away from the yellow planet, Tatooine. It is followed by two huge Imperial star destroyers...
HAN: Stay sharp! There are two more coming in. They're going to try to cut us off.
LUKE: Why don't you outrun them? I thought you said this thing was fast...
HAN: It'll take a few moments to get the coordinates from the navi-computer.
LUKE: Are you kidding?! At the rate they're gaining?! |
| Quote: | | HAN: Look. I want you to take her. I mean it. Take her. You need all the help you can get. She's the fastest ship in the fleet. |
 
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | Nah, I have no particular reason why an ISD should be able to catch an X-Wing... |
Translating the movies into game stats and mechanics is a tricky business indeed...
| Quote: | HAN: It looks like an Imperial cruiser...
EXT. SPACE - PLANET TATOOINE
The Millennium Falcon races away from the yellow planet, Tatooine. It is followed by two huge Imperial star destroyers...
HAN: Stay sharp! There are two more coming in. They're going to try to cut us off.
LUKE: Why don't you outrun them? I thought you said this thing was fast...
HAN: It'll take a few moments to get the coordinates from the navi-computer.
LUKE: Are you kidding?! At the rate they're gaining?! |
| Quote: | | HAN: Look. I want you to take her. I mean it. Take her. You need all the help you can get. She's the fastest ship in the fleet. |
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Key phrase here is 'They're going to try to cut us off'. This means they are coming in from an angle and trying to block their path. It does not mean they are coming up from behind and accelerating faster than the Falcon. Also, if one wants to go by that scene, the Falcon is climbing out of the gravity well, while the ISD are in orbit (and can probably use Tatooines gravity as a slingshot, a common method in 'real' space). |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10528
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Key phrase here is 'They're going to try to cut us off'. This means they are coming in from an angle and trying to block their path. It does not mean they are coming up from behind and accelerating faster than the Falcon. Also, if one wants to go by that scene, the Falcon is climbing out of the gravity well, while the ISD are in orbit (and can probably use Tatooines gravity as a slingshot, a common method in 'real' space). |
Thanks! That works for me.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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In game terms, the Star Destroyer pilots can also get away with doing full moves (4x speed), while the Falcon is limited to less than that, since Han is doing other things (like working the Navicomputer).
At a full move an ISD will close on the Falcon. |
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MA-3PO
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
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Location: Olathe, Kansas
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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I'm curious, does anyone still use the old 1st ed ship movement die codes? I was looking at them the other day and wondered why they changed it to the static move number we have in 2nd ed. It would seem like, for chases at least, it could make starship movement more exciting.
Now I'm just spitballing here, but let's say you added the scale modifer dice to the ship movement die codes the same way we do for starfighter scale vs. capital scale combat, could you represent the acceleration difference somehow? I don't have any of my books with me right now... |
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| MA-3PO wrote: | I'm curious, does anyone still use the old 1st ed ship movement die codes? I was looking at them the other day and wondered why they changed it to the static move number we have in 2nd ed. It would seem like, for chases at least, it could make starship movement more exciting.
Now I'm just spitballing here, but let's say you added the scale modifer dice to the ship movement die codes the same way we do for starfighter scale vs. capital scale combat, could you represent the acceleration difference somehow? I don't have any of my books with me right now... |
I think the reason why they dropped the codes was because it made the characters too powerful, and the ship stats unimportant. Since most PCs tend to have a couple of dice edge over the opponent's in their areas of expertise, it actually made chases less exciting.
The rules was that you added the speed code to piloting skill. That meant that Han Solo could, by the rules, outrun a TIE Interceptor, while in an escape pod. My PC smugglers and fighter pilots would routinely outrun the TIE fighters, since they were rolling more dice. |
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MA-3PO
Lieutenant Commander
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Location: Olathe, Kansas
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | I think the reason why they dropped the codes was because it made the characters too powerful, and the ship stats unimportant. Since most PCs tend to have a couple of dice edge over the opponent's in their areas of expertise, it actually made chases less exciting.
The rules was that you added the speed code to piloting skill. That meant that Han Solo could, by the rules, outrun a TIE Interceptor, while in an escape pod. My PC smugglers and fighter pilots would routinely outrun the TIE fighters, since they were rolling more dice. |
Ah, I can see why that would be a problem. Hmm, why not just roll the speed dice without the piloting skill? A pilot may be among the best in the galaxy, but there is only so much speed you can get out of an engine.
Or if you want some influence from the pilot, have him roll his piloting skill for the terrain difficulty. However much he beats the difficulty number by, you add that difference to the result of the speed code roll. So if the terrain difficulty is 15 and he rolls 25 you are only adding 10 to the speed roll. I don't know, we may end up with the same problem that you previously mentioned. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| MA-3PO wrote: | | Ah, I can see why that would be a problem. Hmm, why not just roll the speed dice without the piloting skill? A pilot may be among the best in the galaxy, but there is only so much speed you can get out of an engine. |
You could, but then it doesn't make a lot of sense, since it is a random die roll. Look at it in terms of cars. Thee is really no way a VW Beetle is going to out-engine a Porsche 911. With random die rolls 2D will occasionally beat 5D.
| MA-3PO wrote: |
Or if you want some influence from the pilot, have him roll his piloting skill for the terrain difficulty. However much he beats the difficulty number by, you add that difference to the result of the speed code roll. So if the terrain difficulty is 15 and he rolls 25 you are only adding 10 to the speed roll. I don't know, we may end up with the same problem that you previously mentioned. |
That would certainly work better than what they had in First Edition, but I suspect it would still have the same problem, maybe even make it worse. Someone like Luke or Han can make those TN 15 piloting rolls while doing other things, easily. On the other hand TIE pilots won't,, and so will fall behind.
Personally, I'd like to drop double an all out movement and do something similar to what they do in Star Warriors. There the ship's speed is a max speed, but a pilot can squeeze 1 or 2 extra hexes out of a craft by overspending. IN RPG terms it would be like spending 1 or 2 actions to add 1 or 2 to the top speed.
What I like about it is that while a skilled pilot can get a little more out of his ship, slow moving freighters can't force TIE fighters to go all out (and thus not be able to shoot) just to keep up.
Another bug with the abstract system was that if the PC's starfight was out of range, then so was a Supersrat Destroyer.
I could see tweaking the abstract system a bit, it is useful for some situations. What I'd try would be something like:
1) Capital Ship Range Bands: Short= Short+Medium, Medium=Long, Long=Out of Starfighter Range, Out of Range is one more band than for starfighters.
2) Use opposed piloting rolls to change range bands. Apply a modifier for speed as per the advantage modifiers. So:
Ship faster than target (slight advantage: +5
Ship is 1.5 times as fast (moderate advantage) +10
Ship is twice as fast: +15
Ship is 3 times as fast: +20
etc.
But that is just off the top of my head. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| MA-3PO wrote: | I'm curious, does anyone still use the old 1st ed ship movement die codes? I was looking at them the other day and wondered why they changed it to the static move number we have in 2nd ed. It would seem like, for chases at least, it could make starship movement more exciting.
Now I'm just spitballing here, but let's say you added the scale modifer dice to the ship movement die codes the same way we do for starfighter scale vs. capital scale combat, could you represent the acceleration difference somehow? I don't have any of my books with me right now... |
I sometimes use the old dice codes, in situations where skill and speed are both a factor. In open space straight 'space racing' I use the fixed numbers.. |
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