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Star Wars: A Rebel ReWrite
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cunning_kindred
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject: Star Wars: A Rebel ReWrite Reply with quote

Hello everyone. It’s been many years since I last visited these sacred havens of the roleplaying game which got me started in the hobby. It’s wonderful to see that you are still thriving in this post-Disney era.

Long, long ago, I started a little thread on your forum (and a now quite defunct website) where I shared with you the attempts my group had made at a 3rd edition of d6 Star Wars. You can find my original forum thread (now many years deceased) here. It’s not much use now. All the links are broken 😊

That was many years ago (11 years ago since my last post to this forum I now discover to my horror). How times fly? And as was probably inevitable, after many years of other games and other systems, I find I have drifted back to the idea of d6 Star Wars. With players coming and going, I drifted away from d6 and – in all honestly – rather had decided that most of the changes we had made over the years had morphed what we were playing into something that had lost its ‘spark’. It no longer really felt like what WEG had created but we did put a lot of work into the material over the years – new Force Traditions, new Aliens, new rules for everything and anything from the books and films – and I began to wonder if I could create something for my new group to use that would include everything good we had created over the years but return to the feel and flavour of the original WEGs version.

So, over the last few weeks, I’ve been assembling a new “Core Rulebook” for my players – both old and new. Its heavily based on the original Revised 2nd Edition – with all its fun little inserts – and when I discovered the brilliant work many of the people here had done of the Revised and Expanded version, I’ve also taken much inspiration from that, but I’ve also included rules that my own group has play-tested over the years at our own table. Since I’ve found so much useful here at the Pit, I thought it only fair to share what I’ve created here just in case anything would be of use to all of you.

It’s not finished yet. Since its only really intended for my players to use, I doubt I’ll ever polish it off completely nor will I stop editing it but here are the chapters that so far are most complete:

Chapter 0: Introduction
This includes an example character using the new rules.

Chapter 1: Characters
Here, you will find my latest take on character creation. I’ve made some quite major overhauls here. I’ve introduced one of the more popular ideas we came up over the years – the Edge – and this ties in quite heavily to the Force Point rules you will find in Chapter 4.

Chapter 2: Attributes and Skills
This includes all the skills we use. The big change from Revised 2nd is the Technical skills which we long ago consolidated. This is one of the changes we made that I really liked, so I’m keeping it for this iteration. Also, taking a note from 2nd Edition 7th Sea, no Dodge skill. Dodge is boring. This uses movement skills for dodge or something else if the players are being imaginative.

Chapter 4: The Rules
Not much changed here except for the rules for Force Points and Dark Side Points. Force Points always seemed to break the game for us after a while. This system is intended to be hopefully just as fun and flavourful but to leave more room before that happens.

Chapter 5: Combat and Injures
Here, I’ve really gone back to the root. The only things I’ve changed are the introduction of a simplified version of the Recoil rules we created over the years – which we always found quite fun – and an overhaul on the injuries which makes stamina more important and makes even a Wookiee with 6D Strength worry about (if not quite fear) blaster fire.

Chapter 6 – 8: I’m getting to these, but it might take a while.

Chapter 9: The Force
This is the big one. The Force system in the original d6 just never seemed to work quite right in our group. You were rubbish for ages and then everyone else at the table could suddenly go home because you didn’t need them anymore – seemingly overnight. You could hold off that moment but once it came, that was that. What we created over the years was bogged down with too many powers and too much ‘clunk’ which frankly was just as abuseable by the player that knew the system well. So, here, I’ve tried to create a system which encompasses the flavour of d6 (more so I think than the original did – I never liked the way that the original system deviated from how everything else in revised worked) but hopefully with enough room to grow and explore the Force. Only some playtesting will really tell.
You find some ideas I know have been around here for a while – a Force attribute – but there are no longer any individual powers and there are more than three Force skills.

Chapter 10 – 14 (and everything else): Still coming, but I’m working on them slowly.

Chapter 15: Aliens
Here there is another radical departure from the original system. I’ve incorporated aliens into our Edge system. No more alien templates. Each is just an Edge you can take in lieu of being something else. Some aren’t even an Edge. Just a couple of bonuses and downsides. Most of the aliens were never particularly “rules heavy” anyway and could just as easily have been a human and worked much the same. The aliens with the heaviest right-ups are the ones with the weirdest rules, so you will find Shards, Hutts, Binars and my personal favourite, the Pulra (I’d never read these guys before a few weeks ago but now I’m hoping someone will play on in my game).

Character Templates
Here I’ve started to adapt the character templates.

I do hope that some of you find something fun and interesting here.

I’m hoping that you will have some feedback or questions.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this any relation to the Star Wars 3rd Edition someone published years ago?
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cunning_kindred
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is this any relation to the Star Wars 3rd Edition someone published years ago?


We did a 3rd Edition many years ago, which we put up on a website that's not there any more and which I published here but whether or not its related to the 3rd Edition you are talking about, I couldn't say. As far as I can tell, there have been several different attempts at it by many different people and I'm fairly confident I haven't seen them all.

If you are thinking of our one, it is related in that I went back to the basic Revised 2nd Edition and then incorporated only that stuff from our various version which I thought had actually really worked without messing up the 'vibe' and 'feel' of the original game. We went down a route of powers, manoeuvres and techniques for all skills which eventually took over and I think kinda ruined what we were going for. This is much more stripped back and closer to the original d6 version.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you recall if the website had the Alien Races chapter broken down into six sub-chapters (7.1-7.6) with the Alien Races in alphabetical order?
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cunning_kindred
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. I still have that version of the rules on my external hard drive. I couldn't make a pdf big enough to contain all the aliens in one document until much later. I'm so pleased that someone remembers it Very Happy
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cunning_kindred wrote:
Yes. I still have that version of the rules on my external hard drive. I couldn't make a pdf big enough to contain all the aliens in one document until much later. I'm so pleased that someone remembers it Very Happy

I still have all the files stored on my drive. It's been a while since I've looked at them, but what you were describing sounded familiar.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cunning_kindred, welcome back! Thanks for sharing!
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Star Wars: A Rebel ReWrite Reply with quote

cunning_kindred wrote:
Hello everyone. It’s been many years since I last visited these sacred havens of the roleplaying game which got me started in the hobby. It’s wonderful to see that you are still thriving in this post-Disney era.


Welcome back Cunning..

cunning_kindred wrote:
Here, you will find my latest take on character creation. I’ve made some quite major overhauls here. I’ve introduced one of the more popular ideas we came up over the years – the Edge – and this ties in quite heavily to the Force Point rules you will find in Chapter 4.


Reading through this, especially the stuff on edges, seems to imo make starting characters a lot more potent than they normally were, and some almost sound like other editions ideas of "prestige' classes"..
Plus it seems edges are ONLY bonuses, i don't really see anything about them, that might be a limit/disadvantage.. IE someone a crook being 'hunted' from the get go', or someone disowned being barred from ever re-entering his home system or the like..

cunning_kindred wrote:
This includes all the skills we use. The big change from Revised 2nd is the Technical skills which we long ago consolidated. This is one of the changes we made that I really liked, so I’m keeping it for this iteration. Also, taking a note from 2nd Edition 7th Sea, no Dodge skill. Dodge is boring. This uses movement skills for dodge or something else if the players are being imaginative.


I like some of the add ons in the "XYZ unleashed" areas.
And the combining Starship, space transport, cap ship etc all into one skill, i've often mentioned my dislike of that, as i can't see how say knowing to ride a motor cycle will translate into someone being able to fly a hercules. Or someone driving a stick ford pinto, being able to pilot a jumbo jet.
Also why did you remove the requirement of the engineering skills having to be an advanced skill, and needing the repair skill as a pre-req?

cunning_kindred wrote:
Not much changed here except for the rules for Force Points and Dark Side Points. Force Points always seemed to break the game for us after a while. This system is intended to be hopefully just as fun and flavourful but to leave more room before that happens.


I see you also changed the 'being familiar' modifiers from flat + xyz to a # of bonus dice..

cunning_kindred wrote:
Here, I’ve really gone back to the root. The only things I’ve changed are the introduction of a simplified version of the Recoil rules we created over the years – which we always found quite fun – and an overhaul on the injuries which makes stamina more important and makes even a Wookiee with 6D Strength worry about (if not quite fear) blaster fire.


From how i am reading it, i see no mention of stamina being used, just strength. BUT i do like the "regardless of how good you roll, any hit will stun and shock you".. Though that said, i am not sure how i feel about the 'you can resurrect someone killed, if you can reach them quick enough' rule..

cunning_kindred wrote:
This is the big one. The Force system in the original d6 just never seemed to work quite right in our group. You were rubbish for ages and then everyone else at the table could suddenly go home because you didn’t need them anymore – seemingly overnight. You could hold off that moment but once it came, that was that. What we created over the years was bogged down with too many powers and too much ‘clunk’ which frankly was just as abuseable by the player that knew the system well. So, here, I’ve tried to create a system which encompasses the flavour of d6 (more so I think than the original did – I never liked the way that the original system deviated from how everything else in revised worked) but hopefully with enough room to grow and explore the Force. Only some playtesting will really tell.


I'd have to give it a much more thourough read though.. BUT looks ok.
PS i like some of the new art work!
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cunning_kindred
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is why the people here are so amazing. You've already shown me a couple of places where I've not achieved what I had set out to do.

Quote:
Reading through this, especially the stuff on edges, seems to imo make starting characters a lot more potent than they normally were, and some almost sound like other editions ideas of "prestige' classes"..
Plus it seems edges are ONLY bonuses, i don't really see anything about them, that might be a limit/disadvantage.. IE someone a crook being 'hunted' from the get go', or someone disowned being barred from ever re-entering his home system or the like..


The Edges do potentially make for a broader range of characters that can be built at character creation but in general, the power level is - mostly - preserved because the number of attribute dice awarded without them has been reduced as well. In general, my experience with Edges in the past has shown a slight increase in power at character creation but nothing I was personally unhappy with as a GM and the players seemed to enjoy being a little more competent in the area they considered important.

The system here is a rewrite of what I've done before (the Force Boons were never bound to Edges before) and will need playtesting so you might be right that I have increased the power level still further without meaning to.

However, where you have really helped is in point out that the negatives are not evident. There are supposed to be downside to Edges as well. Mostly these are supposed to be story factors and are to be designed by the GM and player based on the Edges but it is clear that I will need to give some thought to how to make the whole "turn your Edges into interesting stories" can be emphasised. Maybe as a I do template write-ups I can make this side of the Edges clearer.

Quote:
And the combining Starship, space transport, cap ship etc all into one skill, i've often mentioned my dislike of that, as i can't see how say knowing to ride a motor cycle will translate into someone being able to fly a hercules. Or someone driving a stick ford pinto, being able to pilot a jumbo jet.


Thanks for noticing this. We have, as a group, bounced back and forth on this ourselves over the years. This is actually a slight mistake - as I obviously copied the wrong piece of text. My intention was to have Capital Ships have their own skill but I did want to assimilate Starship piloting and space transports. I agree with you that they are probably quite different but the films and books never show any character having difficulty with one and not the other so for the game, I've found players just find the divide artificial and confusing - so I got rid of it.

Quote:
Also why did you remove the requirement of the engineering skills having to be an advanced skill, and needing the repair skill as a pre-req?


Well, I got rid of advanced skills completely, but also, as someone trained in Engineering and someone who has worked with Engineers in all manner of fields, this never made any sense to me. I know a lot of people that could design a car but if you asked one to fix one, he would burn his hand and not achieve much more than that. They are completely separate fields of study a lot of time and also I see no reason why you should get a base attribute rating for Astronomy but not Engineering a Vehicle. If general cultural exposure can give you one, then it can give you the other. Star Wars is about over the top stuff and so I lean toward giving everyone a chance.

Quote:
I see you also changed the 'being familiar' modifiers from flat + xyz to a # of bonus dice..


A personal preference. I just prefer bonuses to be dice. Its nice to hand the player a bonus dice physically as you tell him to roll well.

Quote:
From how i am reading it, i see no mention of stamina being used, just strength. BUT i do like the "regardless of how good you roll, any hit will stun and shock you".. Though that said, i am not sure how i feel about the 'you can resurrect someone killed, if you can reach them quick enough' rule..


Stamina and Willpower play direct rolls in determining your wound penalties and whether you are dazed or knocked unconscious by your damage.

Quote:
PS i like some of the new art work!


While I would love to take credit for that, I just love surfing the net for what others have achieved and nicking stuff from the new films. I happen to think Rogue One and Solo are both incredibly beautiful films and obviously, some of the artwork people have done over the years well... mostly makes me jealous of their incredible talent.

thanks for the read and feedback. It is appreciated.
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game Rebel Edition reminds me a lot of a version of rules I found several years ago, but could never figure out who created it. Is this your creation as well:

Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game New Edition AKA 3rd Edition, Web Edition.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
Your Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game Rebel Edition reminds me a lot of a version of rules I found several years ago, but could never figure out who created it. Is this your creation as well:

Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game New Edition AKA 3rd Edition, Web Edition.

That's it. I referenced it above, but didn't have an on-line version to link to.
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cunning_kindred
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Your Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game Rebel Edition reminds me a lot of a version of rules I found several years ago, but could never figure out who created it. Is this your creation as well:

Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game New Edition AKA 3rd Edition, Web Edition.


Its nice to know that we left a little impression. I hope you all found at least something useful in our old stuff. We ran a lot of games using those rules. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cunning_kindred wrote:
shootingwomprats wrote:
Your Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game Rebel Edition reminds me a lot of a version of rules I found several years ago, but could never figure out who created it. Is this your creation as well:

Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game New Edition AKA 3rd Edition, Web Edition.

Its nice to know that we left a little impression. I hope you all found at least something useful in our old stuff. We ran a lot of games using those rules. Smile

Is there perhaps an up-to-date version of that document that could be shared for others?

And just to be clear, that is unrelated to this "3rd Edition", right?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cunning_kindred wrote:
This is why the people here are so amazing. You've already shown me a couple of places where I've not achieved what I had set out to do.


Always glad to critique and shine a light on something..


cunning_kindred wrote:
The Edges do potentially make for a broader range of characters that can be built at character creation but in general, the power level is - mostly - preserved because the number of attribute dice awarded without them has been reduced as well. In general, my experience with Edges in the past has shown a slight increase in power at character creation but nothing I was personally unhappy with as a GM and the players seemed to enjoy being a little more competent in the area they considered important.


I can see that. BUT if the enemy is also lowered in their # of attributes, but don't get edges (as i didn't see anything for 'standard enemies'), it might not balance out.
I also kind of got a reflex jerk, when i read )iirc in the intro chapter) something like "players starting out should be able to tackle film characters starting out" or something to that effect.

One of the things i always admired about the WEG system, was how a starting character, had to build UP to the level of the on-screen heroes.

cunning_kindred wrote:
However, where you have really helped is in point out that the negatives are not evident. There are supposed to be downside to Edges as well. Mostly these are supposed to be story factors and are to be designed by the GM and player based on the Edges but it is clear that I will need to give some thought to how to make the whole "turn your Edges into interesting stories" can be emphasised. Maybe as a I do template write-ups I can make this side of the Edges clearer.


As i am more of an ADND player these days, one of the consistent gripes i hear from other DM's on some of the stuff put out latter in 2e's reign, was how some of the kits and other optional stuff gave a lot of 'crunch' for bonuses, but 'balanced them' with only RP Downsides, often never coming up. So in effect, they never had those balancers.
So when i see someone coming up with something like those edges of yours, which do give crunch (actual in game bonuses), but lack anything that can really be considered a down side, i kinda flinch. Especially if those down sides are just pure RP stuff..

Maybe those edges (since you let people star with two), have diametric opposites. If you have edge X, you can't get either of A or B.. Or something like that.. That i could see as being a potential balancer..

cunning_kindred wrote:
Thanks for noticing this. We have, as a group, bounced back and forth on this ourselves over the years. This is actually a slight mistake - as I obviously copied the wrong piece of text. My intention was to have Capital Ships have their own skill but I did want to assimilate Starship piloting and space transports. I agree with you that they are probably quite different but the films and books never show any character having difficulty with one and not the other so for the game, I've found players just find the divide artificial and confusing - so I got rid of it.


Fare enough. So the SF scale stuff skills all got combo'ed but the cap stuff still is separate..

cunning_kindred wrote:
Well, I got rid of advanced skills completely, but also, as someone trained in Engineering and someone who has worked with Engineers in all manner of fields, this never made any sense to me. I know a lot of people that could design a car but if you asked one to fix one, he would burn his hand and not achieve much more than that. They are completely separate fields of study a lot of time and also I see no reason why you should get a base attribute rating for Astronomy but not Engineering a Vehicle. If general cultural exposure can give you one, then it can give you the other. Star Wars is about over the top stuff and so I lean toward giving everyone a chance.


Interesting angle. I think the manner WEG was going for, was one had to know the basics (how to repair/strip it down and put it back together) before one could design their own. But as you are an actual engineer, i defer to your judgement there.

cunning_kindred wrote:
A personal preference. I just prefer bonuses to be dice. Its nice to hand the player a bonus dice physically as you tell him to roll well.


That's kind of ironic, with some of the thread i've read over the years, wanting to the exact opposite, Consolidate the # of dice into being less, and giving flat modifiers in their place.. IE say you had a blaster of 7d, but were on a force point, you could say still roll 8d, but add +21 to it (the ave of 6d).. Or something like that. Some people did feel the "bucket o die" effect of weg did put some players off.

cunning_kindred wrote:
thanks for the read and feedback. It is appreciated.


Glad to give it.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Is there perhaps an up-to-date version of that document that could be shared for others?

And just to be clear, that is unrelated to this "3rd Edition", right?


I might have a more up to date version of this somewhere. I'd have to go look about in my old files and compare. I probably don't have anything compiled into a single document unfortunately. Although the version here seems pretty close to what we were working with when last we played.

The two versions are kinda related. Bascially, I went back to Revised Edition and then started to add the bits I thought had actually worked but I took a very "light and fast" angle this time and avoided trying to have rules for everything.

The techniques were cool and all and can still inspire players with cool things to do with their skills but we found that trying to have a rule for everything really was contrary to what made WEG version fun and also didn't really help with balance at all.

Also, while the not using STR for soak or damage did make for a more balanced game, I personally really missed it.

So, to answer your question, they are kinda close cousins.
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