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Cloaking Devices = SWU Submarines?
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Bren
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I fail to see why an SU can't be a measurement of acceleration and weapon range, especially when one factors in the vagaries of effective weapon ranges and moving targets.
Because physics, specifically d=(v0 + v1)*t/2 and v1=v0+a*t, where v0=0 since you said the two ships start from a standstill. So d = (1/2)*a*t^2.

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That's a big if.

Not nearly as big as you're making it out to be, I think. It certainly makes more sense than the alternative.
To you. Not to me. Which means it looks like it's time for me to depart this conversation.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another potential wrinkle for this would be to make it so that the Cloaking Device takes 2-3 rounds to engage or disengage, during which time, the Shields don't function. This would parallel the vulnerability that subs experienced when submerging or surfacing.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would seem to be a reasonable limitation.
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only ships we’ve seen cloak/decloak are in the Trk universe (afaik). They seem to take a few seconds to cloak/decloak, but their cloaking devices are much more refined.

I’m not sure I’d go with 3 rounds, but 1 to 2 would certainly seem like a good offset to me.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What would a good name for a cloak warship be? Obviously they can't be called submarines, and they're not going to be so far removed from the corvettes and frigates the cloaking devices would be mounted on as to rate an entire class name all by themselves.

I'm leaning toward "raider", as in "corvette raider" and "frigate raider" to distinguish them in size. For historical precedent, "raiding" was used in WW2 to describe attacks on merchant vessels by naval surface ships ("commerce raiding"), or by converted merchantmen ("merchant raiders") that concealed their armament behind false hull plating or other camouflage.

Also, "Raid" is defined as "a sudden attack on an enemy by troops, aircraft, or other armed forces in warfare," or as "a surprise attack by a small force." Seeing as how a cloaked ship would be ideally suited for making "sudden surprise attacks", I think Raider is pretty apt for a mission classification.

Thoughts?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red October?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need a Facepalm Emoticon.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raider is pretty good.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Raider is pretty good.

I like it, but I'm also hesitant because it is somewhat derivative; Chaos navy escorts in WH40K Battlefleet Gothic are called Raiders instead of Frigates or Destroyers. Another option (from the Lost Fleet series) would be Hunter-Killer, but I prefer the economy of two syllables.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, based on what I posted here regarding different types of U-Boats used during WW2, I have a basic concept as to four different types of Cloaked Warships:
    -Raider Corvette: Small & fast, but relatively low endurance.

    -Raider Frigate: Larger, with greater endurance and weapons loadout, but not as maneuverable as the Corvette.

    -Raider Bombard: As Raider Frigate, but sacrifices much of its anti-ship torpedo capacity for missile launchers.

    -Raider Transport: Cloaked bulk transport, used for minelaying, stealth troop insertion and resupply of forward deployed Raider warships.

If I'm going with the full WW2 analog, then there would also be Raider Cruisers, but such ship's relative lack of maneuverability lead to them falling out of favor relatively quickly.
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Scots Dragon
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could go for 'Stealth [X]'

So 'Stealth Corvette', 'Stealth Frigate', etc.
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Ray
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember, you got to be running absolutely silent while the stealth field is in operation, because Space Opera!!! Laughing
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scots Dragon wrote:
You could go for 'Stealth [X]'

So 'Stealth Corvette', 'Stealth Frigate', etc.

Stealth is a bit too broad a term for my tastes. There are other stealth options for ships, such as sensor masks or sensor baffling hulls. I wanted something specific to cloaked ships, distinct from, or as a subset of, the broader category of stealth ships in general.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray wrote:
Remember, you got to be running absolutely silent while the stealth field is in operation, because Space Opera!!! Laughing

Since gravity has replaced sound / sonar for the purposes of "space submarines", it's more that the ship has to take steps to minimize its gravitic signature. Part of my working theory discussed above is that the ship's acceleration compensator creates a distortion in space time that is either equivalent or sufficiently similar to gravity that it can be detected by a CGT sensor. The faster a ship is moving, the "deeper" the distortion, and thus the stronger the gravitic signature (roughly analogous to hull flow noise, prop cavitation, etc, in actual submarines), so a ship that is running silent is creeping along very slowly to minimize its signature in all respects.
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